Digital Convergence Podcast Episode 113: Warning! Speed Change Ahead

In episode number 113 of the Digital Convergence Podcast, we talk about the following:

  • March 27, 2013, Atlanta Cutters to feature Marc Solorio (BMCC camera) and Rob Ashe (Conan Show editor)
  • A fix for the Black Magic Cinema Camera
  • Nikon announces the D7100 – with no low-pass optical filter on the sensor
  • Canon is developing an amazing new high sensitivity sensor
  • Are we keeping with change in our art and craft?
  • Getting constructive feedback from our customers
  • Script writing for promo videos

Listen along by clicking here (to download right-click and choose “save link as”)

Click here to subscribe in iTunes.

CARL 00:00 This is The Digital Convergence Podcast, episode number 113.

CARL 00:56 We’d like to welcome you to another edition of The Digital Convergence Podcast, your talk show about photography, video, and post-production. We’ve got a great show lined up for you today. This is episode number 113. Warning: speed change ahead. The Digital Convergence Podcast is sponsored by CrumplePop film and broadcast effects for Final Cut Pro and KRE8 Insights, helping talented and passionate film-makers become successful entrepreneurs. That means business people. Visit their website today for proven strategies that can help you grow your business at And the DCP team today is Mr. Chris Fenwick.

CHRIS 01:44 Hey now.

CARL 01:45 Hey, where are you today?

CHRIS 01:47 I’m actually sitting in my favorite room with the high bandwidth the big screens and I’m all good. I’m in Edit 2 at Slice Editorial in Oakland.

CARL 01:55 Wow. And Mr. Planet Mitch?

MITCH 01:58 Hello. Hello.

CARL 01:59 From?

S? 02:00 St. Louis. [laughter]

MITCH 02:02 No, I’m not from Britain.

CARL 02:04 Alright. Yeah. And also joining us today is the ever awesome Mr. Ron Dawson.

RON 02:14 Good morning everyone.

CARL 02:16 Yeah. You’ve been having connection issues today, and I’m talking about internet by the way.

RON 02:21 Yeah. Thankfully, Charter Communications is not one of your sponsors [laughter]. After today they may never be [chuckle], but–

CHRIS 02:32 Tell us how you really feel.

RON 02:32 I’m frustrated–

MITCH 02:35 Actually my Charter works really well.

RON 02:38 Good for you[laughter]. Rub it in. Salt, meet wound.

CARL 02:44 Yes.

RON 02:44 Yeah.

MITCH 02:45 I had all sorts of trouble with AT&T Internet, but that’s a whole other story.

CARL 02:50 Oh, well. It’s amazing that we’re even able to do this today.

MITCH 02:55 Or talk. [laughter]

CARL 02:55 It still– yeah talking that’s– speech impediments is something I have to work in.

S? 03:00 This week in meet your ISP.

CARL 03:02 All right, so before we get into our show, what was the film or T. V. show [inaudible]–

MITCH 03:07 Perry Mason.

CHRIS 03:08 I feel like Robert Wagner, ‘It Takes A Thief’. That’s my guess. Hence this “Oh, my gold. You”–

CARL 03:14 Robert Wagner?

CHRIS 03:16 Well, Robert Wagner–

CARL 03:16 How did you come up with that?

CHRIS 03:18 Well, wasn’t Robert Wagner in ‘It Takes A Thief’? I feel like it’s ‘It Takes A Thief’, that’s my guess.

CARL 03:25 Okay.

MITCH 03:26 Perry Mason.

CHRIS 03:28 My gold, somebody stole my gold.

CARL 03:29 I’ll give you a clue. Grace Kelly.

MITCH 03:35 Grace Kelly?

CARL 03:36 Grace Kelly.

RON 03:36 Is it a T. V. show or a movie?

CARL 03:38 Okay, I’ll narrow it down. It’s a movie. [laughter]

RON 03:42 Ah-ha, I knew it.

CHRIS 03:42 I mean, it’s not Robert Wagner, but it’s still ‘It Takes a Thief’.

CARL 03:45 I mean, but you should have known that with Grace Kelly. Did she ever appear in TV shows?

RON 03:49 I don’t think so.

CARL 03:50 I don’t remember. She may have, but I don’t remember.

RON 03:53 I thought you only did–

CARL 03:54 Okay, second clue is Cary Grant.

CHRIS 03:56 To Catch a Thief

CARL 03:59 What did you say?

CHRIS 04:00 To Catch a Thief

RON 04:00 Oh, is it ‘North By Northwest’?

CARL 04:03 No.

RON 04:03 No, that isn’t. [laughter]

MITCH 04:05 I’m just being really quiet.

RON 04:06 Wait, wait, wait, wait…

CARL 04:07 No. Chris, what did you say?

CHRIS 04:09 To Catch a Thief.

CARL 04:10 You’ve got it. ‘To Catch a Thief’, and the composer for that intro is Lyn Murray.

CHRIS 04:20 Lyn Murray. So, that was a Hitchcock film, right?

CARL 04:23 That was an Alfred Hitchcock film, yes.

RON 04:25 But so was ‘North By Northwest’.

CARL 04:27 Well, of course, but it wasn’t the movie that I played. [laughter]
RON 04:31 Do I get partial credit?

CARL 04:32 No, you don’t get partial credit. There are no par– of course, Chris was playing high stakes last week, because he was going to get fired from the show if he didn’t catch it, but he got it. That’s amazing.

CHRIS 04:42 Yeah, I got lucky.

CARL 04:44 Hey, and you won a gold star today, too.

CHRIS 04:48 And, my pay has been doubled. [laughter]

CARL 04:51 Yeah. Well, it’s been an interesting week for me. I hope it has been for all of you.

CHRIS 04:57 What’s going on with you?

CARL 04:57 Oh, my goodness. Well, I was in Chattanooga all day Monday, I think it was. I met with Chris Simmons of Kre8 Insights and 6 Strong Media. And, I also met with one of my Reets TV customers. I had a face-to-face chat. It is always good to do that, talk to your customers, get feedback from them. And the guy I talk with– I will share his name. His name is Ray Stevens. He used to play with the Saint Louis Cardinals.

RON 05:29 Wow!

MITCH 05:30 Wow!

RON 05:32 I just said that.

CARL 05:33 Yes, so that was pretty cool.

MITCH 05:34 There is an echo. [chuckles]

CARL 05:37 Yes, so it is always good to get some feedback about your product and it was very educational for me to be able to talk with him. So, that was my primary reason to go up there– is to spend sometime with one of our favorite customers.

MITCH 05:53 What is the link to a baseball player? Is he now doing damage restoration?

CARL 05:57 Yes, actually that was he was doing. Well, he has a construction company and one of their services is water damage restoration. So, you know…

CHRIS 06:08 Was it good feedback?

CARL 06:09 Yes, it was. It was very good feedback. I won’t share it here. [chuckle]

CHRIS 06:14 No, I know but–

CARL 06:16 But, it was. It was very constructive. I think it’s important that we as content producers, video producers– whatever we’re doing. It doesn’t even have to be video. Are we really in touch with what our customers want, what our customers need; what are their pain points? That’s just something I always wonder about. It has been a while since I had talked face to face and interviewed a Reets TV customer. So, it gave me an opportunity to do that and to get some good feedback. It told me that there was a lot of things where we’re doing right and then it gave me some ideas to improve what we’re doing.

CHRIS 06:58 It’s interesting for you because you’re dealing with the one on one, money out of pocket customer. I typically just deal with producers and large companies and stuff like that. It is different to get that, literally, the guy who’s going to pull out his credit card. That must be very interesting.

MITCH 07:22 So, was this an episode of Undercover boss? You went out in the field? [laughter]

CARL 07:27 Well sometimes it feels like shark tank, you– [laughter] He was very gracious and very helpful. I think that’s– take the time to ask for a council as it where from your customers. Ask them what you’re doing that works and ask them, what you would like to see. It may or may not– they’re not always right and it may not be right for all your customers, but it’s always good to hear what’s on their mind. What is their pain point?

CHRIS 07:55 Yeah. Yesterday, I was working on a piece for one of my clients and we were at a point where we had all the content laid out, and it’s just one of this big exotic after effects things, and I knew that we were starting to build a house of cards and I said to the producer, I said, “So, before we move forward from here we should probably get a buy off on what this content is because changing it after right now is going to be very difficult. Are you the person that’s going to make that final cost?” He said, “Let me get somebody down here.” He brings somebody in– like you asking for feedback, and I was awful. Because, we had totally missed the mark, we we’re not aiming at the right wall, and it was just– it threw our whole day into a tailspin. So instead of moving forward, in a very elaborate after effects project, we got the scanner out, went back to archive, and it was like– we went a totally different direction.

CARL 09:03 Yeah, but have you–

CHRIS 09:03 But had we not solicited or elicited that input, we would have made a huge mistake, so–

CARL 09:11 And see that customer’s going to remember you as the person that was responsive to their needs. Yeah, maybe you missed the mark the first go around, but what they remember is what you did to turn the ship around.
CHRIS 09:24 Right, right.

CARL 09:25 Yeah, the other thing that I did yesterday– yesterday, I spent at Walter Biscardi’s office. He and I have been working together on some stuff that we’re not quite ready to announce yet, but one of the big pieces of news that came out yesterday is that I found out that Marco Solorio is going to be–

CHRIS 09:48 Solo-rio

CARL 09:49 Solorio? I hope I–

RON 09:51 I think it–

CARL 09:52 He’s the Blackmagic Cinema Camera guy, right.

CHRIS 09:55 Yeah, he’s actually very close to me. He’s a from Walnut Creek, which is right over the hill from Oakland. I’d–

CARL 10:00 Have you met him?

CHRIS 10:02 I have. He came to Cutters on night. SF Cutters. Isn’t it Solorio.

CARL 10:08 Solorio. Maybe that’s it. Yes.

CHRIS 10:09 It’s one– Hence the name of his company, OneRiver.

CARL 10:14 Yeah.

CHRIS 10:15 OneRiver Media because his name is Solo-rio, which in Spanish means one river.

CARL 10:19 Yeah. That’s it.

MITCH 10:21 Oh!

CARL 10:22 Yeah. But anyway, he’s coming, he’s coming. And he’s also going to be doing a workshop at Biscardi Creative Studio which– two day workshop on the Blackmagic Cinema Camera.

CHRIS 10:35 Is Walter a fan of the Blackmagic Cinema Camera? Or is he just offering up his space?

CARL 10:42 Well, no one’s got to work with that thing yet other than people–

CHRIS 10:46 Marco. [laughter]

CARL 10:47 It’s got a lot of potential, I suppose, but I personally haven’t got–

CHRIS 10:50 Is it not–

CARL 10:50 I have not [inaudible].

CHRIS 10:51 Is it not actually shipping? Nobody has one in a while.

CARL 10:54 Well it’s shipping, but it’s– they’ve had some problems.

MITCH 10:57 Yeah.

CARL 10:58 But, I think you got to put it all into perspective because–

CHRIS 11:02 Camera-makering is hard.

CARL 11:04 Yeah. [laughter] These guys were so audacious to take on– doing what Canon, and Aerie, and Red, and all these guys have been doing it for a long time, and, “Hey, let’s try this.”

CHRIS 11:19 How funny you throw Red into that.

CARL 11:21 Yeah.

CHRIS 11:22 I mean, they’ve been doing it for six years, so…

CARL 11:25 Yeah, well, that’s 700 years in dog years, right? And so–

CHRIS 11:30 Time moves on.

CARL 11:30 Ah, well. Oh, the other cool thing is that at Atlantic Cutters, in March, will be Rob Ashe. He is the editor from Conan O’brien.

MITCH 11:41 Oh, really?

CARL 11:41 Yeah, he will be there.

CHRIS 11:43 That’s fun.

CARL 11:44 Yeah, lots of exciting things happening here.
CHRIS 11:48 We have really fun stuff coming up at the San Francisco Cutters. A guy named Robert Dalva, who – and I can’t remember what he did, but he’s a big name, if you Google-ize or IMDB him – he’s going to be speaking at the at the next March 21st SF Cutters.

CARL 12:02 That’s cool. Cool.

CHRIS 12:04 I will go IMDB him while you talk.

CARL 12:06 Okay. [chuckle]

RON 12:06 Hey, hey–

CARL 12:07 Go ahead, Ron.

RON 12:09 Is that Rob Ash? Is he one of the guys in that spoof video?

CARL 12:12 Yes. Yep.

RON 12:13 Which one is he? Do you know offhand?

CARL 12:15 He’s the tall guy. He is a very tall guy. [chuckle]

RON 12:20 Okay. That was a funny video.

CARL 12:22 Yeah.

RON 12:25 You said he’s coming to Atlanta Cutters?

CARL 12:28 Yeah, Atlanta Cutters, March 27th. It starts at 6:00. And here’s the sad thing, I’ve got a prior commitment, so I won’t get to go to this awesome event.

CHRIS 12:41 What happened?

CARL 12:42 Hey, Ron, go on my stead? How about that?

RON 12:44 I’ll look into that.

CARL 12:45 You go on my stead. Shoot some video and share it with the DCP crowd, and across some 180 crowd.

RON 12:52 Oh, I have to work?

CARL 12:54 Yeah, you’ve got to work. [laughter] What do you think? Man, everybody is getting a free ride here.

RON 13:02 No, actually, I’ll put it on my calendar and I’ll see.

CARL 13:02 I’m just teasing. Yeah. I would go. I would go. I would personally go if I could but I’ve already, I’ve already made commitments that I can’t get out of.

CHRIS 13:15 Here we go. Captain America, The First Avenger, Hidalgo, Jurassic Park III, October Sky, Jumanji.

CARL 13:24 I liked October Sky.

CHRIS 13:25 The Black Stallion. I’ve heard this guy speak before and he’s fascinating.

CARL 13:29 Yeah.

CHRIS 13:30 Very interesting.

CARL 13:31 Good story teller, huh?

CHRIS 13:33 Yes.

CARL 13:34 Alright, well let’s move on. What time is it?

RON 13:39 It’s time for sound effect.

CARL 13:41 Yeah. So Admiral Planet Mitch, what is happening in the world of video and photography?

MITCH 13:51 Well, let’s briefly cover the Blackmagic again, by the way.
CARL 13:55 Okay.

MITCH 13:57 Seeing as how you mentioned that there were problems. And, I find it ironic. I don’t know how fast time goes, but it goes really fast. Did you know that NAB is four weeks from today or yesterday?

CARL 14:13 Yes.

MITCH 14:14 And that’s when the Blackmagic was announced last year.

CHRIS 14:17 I know exactly where I will be in NAB, actually.

CARL 14:20 Are you going to be at NAB?

CHRIS 14:21 No, I’ll be sitting in behind a computer somewhere working because I have too much work. [laughter]

CARL 14:27 Ron, are you going to be at NAB this year?

RON 14:30 No, I’m not going to make it. It’s hard for me to get out there in Western Country. I hope to make it one of these days.

CHRIS 14:36 They have planes. [laughter]

RON 14:38 I know. The requirement is a long– like when I was in California if I wanted to do something like that, it’ll be easy to drive down and drive up quickly and–

CHRIS 14:48 Would you drive from the Bay area to Vegas?

RON 14:50 Yeah. I did. I would bring my family in tow. Yeah.

CHRIS 14:56 I mean, not about your family, but… [laughter]

RON 14:58 I think, yeah.

CARL 14:59 I’m still throwing some balls in my juggling act to see whether or not I can swing it and justify it. Alright–

MITCH 15:07 I’ll be there.

CARL 15:07 –so we totally derailed your conversation.

MITCH 15:10 No, that’s okay.

CARL 15:11 Go for it Mitch.

MITCH 15:11 I derailed my own conversation because I mentioned NAB. And it just blows me away that it’s been a year since the Blackmagic was announced. And like you said earlier that they’ve been having some problems getting stuff done. But the good news is that they have figured out what the problem was that we;ve discussed a couple of week ago with the infinite focus or the infinity focus, depending upon which way you want to say it.

CARL 15:39 Right.

MITCH 15:40 And I find it interesting that the result is that they built “some fair amount of tolerance” into their cameras to cater for still-lenses where the tolerances are different than cinema lenses. So, they tried to appeal to the masses and made things a little bit wiggly, I guess, is maybe one way to– [chuckle] a non-technical phrase. So, there’s just a little bit of tolerance issue. So, in order to get it fixed, you have to send your camera back.

CARL 16:20 Oh, wow. And how long is it away?

MITCH 16:24 They have not said that yet. So, that makes it very interesting, especially for customers overseas, because that could be quite awhile.

CARL 16:33 Yeah, yeah.

MITCH 16:36 Also, something that I neglected to mention last week – because I was just so dad gum busy focusing on the brand new Planet 5D forums–

CARL 16:47 Yay.

MITCH 16:50 Did you know that Nikon annunced– annunced. I have your problem, Carl.

CARL 16:54 Yeah.

MITCH 16:55 –announced a new camera last week, called the D7100?

RON 16:59 No, I didn’t know that.

CARL 17:00 No.

CHRIS 17:00 Yeah, I think I read about it on your webpage. Didn’t I?

MITCH 17:02 No you didn’t, because I completely bluplast it because I was working on the forum stuff. This is a very interesting body in a couple of respects. Number one, it’s a relatively low price. It’s only 1200 dollars. It’s also interesting that there’s no low optical– no – how do I say that right? – optical low pass filter. All camera’s have one of these optical low pass filters – also sometimes called an AA filter, anti-aliasing filter – to take away some of the alias issues like moire issues, and they’ve chosen on this particular camera to just not put one in.

CARL 17:51 So, the end result is you get better resolution in theory.

MITCH 17:55 Yes, sharper images.

CARL 17:56 But, what you might– if you us it for video, you might end up with more moire, is that correct?

MITCH 18:02 Very curious about the moire issue on this camera, yeah. Nobody’s had their hands on one yet, that I’ve seen. But, very curious about that.

CHRIS 18:11 Making the lines on your shirt are too close for TV that’s a moire. [laughter] That’s our own Dean Martin.

RON 18:24 That’s a good one, Chris. I like that. That was creative.

CARL 18:27 You want to do that again? Let me–

CHRIS 18:28 I’ve been singing that for 25 years, sitting in control rooms when people would walk out on the set, And I go, “No, no, you’re not wearing that coat.” [laughter]

MITCH 18:38 That’s a moire.

RON 18:39 That’s funny.

CARL 18:40 Out with plaid. So what’s the price point for this camera?

MITCH 18:45 $12, 000 which is pretty low?

CARL 18:48 Is it a crop sensor or full sensor?

MITCH 18:51 It is a DX format which is cropped in Nikon sense, right? It’s not full frame.

CARL 19:00 Right.

MITCH 19:01 I get really confused. I apologized, because I’m not a good Nikon boy yet.

CARL 19:06 Well, the last Nikon camera body I owned and still owned is a Nikon FM2.

S? 19:12 Wow.

CARL 19:14 I tell you what, it’s hard to find film for it. [laughter]

CHRIS 19:18 Speaking of which, I love this article on your site Mitch about ‘The Last Roll of Kodachrome’, it’s an interesting question. I didn’t read it but I just saw it posted there and I was like, “Oh, that’s a neat concept.” What would you do? What would you shoot with your last 36 frames of film? Very interesting.

MITCH 19:39 On that particular articular, I’ve thought about it several times since I put it up there. Gosh, all of a sudden I can’t come of those names, Steve, is that right?

CHRIS 19:51 Steve McCurry, yeah.

MITCH 19:52 Yeah, McCurry. Thank you. Went out and arranged a year before they stopped production to get the very last roll of Kodachrome off the production line. Now obviously you can still buy Kodachrome from places if you want, but I don’t think there’s any place to process it. So anyway, he had a year to think about it and it turns out, if you end up watching the video, he didn’t think about it very hard. He just knew he was going to do it. And then he took six weeks off of his regular work to go shoot the last 36 frames. Very fascinating story.

CARL 20:35 It’s amazing how having limits or boundaries, that type of criteria, affects your creativity. One of the hardest things– let’s say you’re a music composer and you’re using the latest synthesizer technologies that are out there. There are literally thousands upon thousands upon thousands of patches. Even in garage band and logic, they come with tens of thousands of different sounds, and loops and things like that and you just go nuts trying to figure out, ‘Which loop do I want to use to create this music band?’ You just go nuts with that because you have so many choices. And so when you limit your choices, it really seems to change the way you view the creative process.

RON 21:24 Do remember what sci-fi action movie had a kind of similar premise?

CARL 21:29 No.

CHRIS 21:30 About picking a synthesizer patch in a sci-fi movie?

RON 21:33 [laughter] No, about choosing what your last photos’ going to be.

CHRIS 21:38 Oh, no.

CARL 21:40 Oh! [laughter] Was that– we talked about it and I’ve already forgotten the name of it.

MITCH 21:46 We did?

CHRIS 21:46 Starlight Green?

CARL 21:48 No, it was a short film. [laughter]

RON 21:50 No, a feature film starring Gwyneth Paltrow. I think Judd Law is in it too.

CARL 21:57 That sounds like–

MITCH 21:57 Three Doors?

RON 21:59 Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow

CARL 22:01 Oh.

CHRIS 22:04 Well, that would have to assume that you actually watched it. [laughter]

CARL 22:08 Ron is the absolute master – trivia master for this type of thing, yes. That’s good.

RON 22:14 So, I didn’t get– I got North by Northwest wrong?

CARL 22:17 Yes. Well… [laughter]

CHRIS 22:21 What’s next?

CARL 22:22 Okay. [laughter] Is that it? In the news? [laughter]

CHRIS 22:25 No, I’m saying what’s next in the news?

MITCH 22:30 I briefly want to discuss this one. I find this interesting. I think it’s a no-brainer, but Canon rumors covered this story a couple of days ago. Canon has announced they’ve developed a new high sensitivity sensor and–

CARL 22:51 What?

MITCH 22:52 Yeah, I know. Of course they’re working on stuff like this, but I find it interesting that Canon actually took the trouble to announce it. This sensor that they’ve been working on– I’m sort of an old, amateur astronomer. I’ve been in the–[chuckle] yes I’m old, never mind. This video sensor can capture magnitude six stars.

CHRIS 23:20 Okay, what does that mean to normal people?

CARL 23:22 So magnitude six stars are the dimmest stars visible to the naked eye.

MITCH 23:28 Right, thank you
CARL 23:29 Assuming that you have good lighting conditions, which these days, there’s so much street lights, and that sort of thing that you’re doing good if you see second magnitude stars.

MITCH 23:40 And this one is even capable of going down to magnitude eight and a half, which is below what the eye can see. I’m just fascinated to see what they’ve produce with this, and supposedly, at the show yesterday – the Security Show 2013 – they were going to show some sample footage, and I’ve been hoping that we’d find it online, I haven’t found it yet. This was in Tokyo. I just found that fascinating.

CARL 24:13 Yeah.

CHRIS 24:13 Yeah, I mean, I was on set last week, and one of the guys had a 1. 2, I think, a 85 1. 2 lens, and I looked through it and I was like, I could already see more than the naked eye. It was brighter than just looking around the camera, it seems like. How do you make a lens– isn’t Canon making a .95 lens now? Did I see– was that a bad dream I had?

MITCH 24:45 It could be. I don’t know Chris, I’m not up on all the lenses, but… yeah. Of course they don’t say what ISO this was, but I am assuming it is relatively low ISO and–

CARL 25:00 Well, it does sound like all the technology is constantly changing in and improving for the better.

MITCH 25:05 Change.

CARL 25:06 Yeah.

MITCH 25:07 Changing? What an interesting concept. [chuckles] That is it. Let’s buy some lights.

CARL 25:15 Okay. Alright. So, it is time to take a moment to talk about our favorite Final Cut Pro-10 and Final Cut Pro-7, if we are still using that. Filter gurus, the CrumplePop, film and broadcast effects for Final Cut Pro.

MITCH 25:39 Sorry, I was early.

CARL 25:40 Oh, it is all right. I was late.

MITCH 25:42 You stuttered.

CARL 25:43 Yes, I stuttered.– remember DCP listeners, you can all get 20% discount on all CrumplePop products, just use the coupon code DCP20 and one of the cool things is they are now hosting transcripts of this podcast and it’s taken a while for us to get there because transcription–

CHRIS 26:07 Scripts?

CARL 26:08 Yeah, transcription is hard. Oh, my good– but they are taking care of that for us, which is really, really nice. They just did the one that we did just a few weeks ago with Dale Granh, the Color Timer, so that episode is now transcribed and up on their blog.

MITCH 26:27 Is it?

CARL 26:27 Yeah. So, if you want to see, word for word, what we say, [laughter]– and you just take a listen to how this podcast goes, and how we talk, and how we talk over each other, can you imagine? We are a transcriber’s worst nightmare.

RON 26:42 Can you say [inaudible].

CHRIS 26:43 Transcribe this, transcribe this.

RON 26:44 What? What are you saying?

CHRIS 26:45 [inaudible]

CARL 26:46 See look at that–

CHRIS 26:47 We like talking over each other all the time.

RON 26:47 I couldn’t say all but Carl–

MITCH 26:49 Mitch, 1 minute and 31 seconds.

CHRIS 26:49 Yeah. Shouldn’t have said that. Good luck, but good luck with that.

MITCH 26:51 Yay! [laughter] This is great. I mean, they’ve got all my little quips in here. We’ve got only one ‘R’, not two. They’ve set, [inaudible] 2 minutes and 20 seconds.

CARL 27:01 I’m just totally speechless, but I am very grateful to Crumple–

CHRIS 27:03 [inaudible] this moment right now.

MITCH 27:05 Oh, this is great, ‘Mitch, at 2 minutes and 50 seconds, Yay!’ [laughter]

CHRIS 27:10 So, obviously, this isn’t automated, this is– [laughter]

CARL 27:13 There is no–

CHRIS 27:14 –Mechanical Turk, right?

CARL 27:15 Yeah, Mechanical Turk all the way. [laughter]

MITCH 27:18 This is great stuff. I’m so eloquent.

CARL 27:21 Hey, the other cool thing about CrumplePop is– remember how Dale was telling us all those cool stories. We had such a nightmare with Skype, so we didn’t get the half of it.

CHRIS 27:33 I know.

CARL 27:34 It was such a bummer because he was just full of experiences [chuckle]. But, Gabe has been doing a video series where he’s interviewing him. And so he talks about like color timing, his experiences on Private Ryan– he did share that on our show, but you can catch that at CrumplePop’s blog there.

CHRIS 27:57 I just also want to say that last week I could. not have gotten through the edit I did without CrumplePop. It was awesome. Really great. I used their SplitScreen X [inaudible].

CARL 28:10 I just got a– yeah, that’s a good– I use their products all the time. I mean, there’s not an edit session that goes by where I don’t touch something of theirs in my editing. So CrumplePop, check them out, DCP20 for your 20% discount. I got an interesting Skype message from– is it Planet Mitch? Somebody says, “Chris, am I cracking– crackling?”

CHRIS 28:43 Oh, crackling. [chuckles] I don’t know. I have no idea about your psychological backgrounds, so– [laughter]

CARL 28:50 No, I think that’s Mitch quoting from the transcript.

CHRIS 28:53 I got it, okay.

MITCH 28:55 Sorry.

CHRIS 28:55 Very good.

MITCH 28:56 I was laughing over that one too. Chris is so eloquent.

CARL 28:59 Well, we’ve– so moving on —

CHRIS 29:00 [inaudible]

CARL 29:02 Yes. [laughter] So moving on, one of the things I ask the DCP team yesterday, what should we talk about today? And, I think you’ve probably gotten the clue from the show title “Warning: Speed Change Ahead” and we’ve mentioned that word “change” a few times and I think that’s an event, not necessarily the word, but the event is very controversial. It’s something that people have a hard time with. And if we’re brutally honest with ourselves, we probably all, to some degree, have problems with change or accepting change.

MITCH 29:41 I do.

CARL 29:42 Yes. I mean, I get upset sometimes when– because things are normal. [laughter] The status quo, you don’t want it upset because it gives you a measure of comfort. It’s– It takes less effort to go through a routine than it does to think creatively. I’m just being brutally honest, sometimes I don’t like change. But, I’ve been very active in trying to figure out, always being alert to that road block, and then forcing myself to do something totally different to be more adaptable to that.

CHRIS 30:22 What kind of change are you talking about?

CARL 30:24 Well, I talk about different types of change. For example, just the way I work with video. For example, it’s– people are still struggling with this change from Final Cut Pro 7 to Final Cut Pro 10.

CHRIS 30:42 Or Final Cut Pro 7 to anything.

CARL 30:44 Or, to anything. Exactly. Or, the way businesses work. For example, there’s a huge market for people to do these video tutorials like I do. Owning the content versus doing client work. That was something I didn’t even think about three years ago because I was trying to do the normal thing of doing client work but now I’ve changed my model to own the content.

CHRIS 31:16 Yeah, I’m really envious about all that you’re doing with Reets TV, I think it’s brilliant. I think that you should be traveling around the country talking about how to do it.

CARL 31:24 [laughter] I’ll be glad to share it. What kind of change do you face?

CHRIS 31:37 Well, I think, we all face various types of change. There’s simple things. The change in the gear that we have available to us and the gear the we use. There is the change in the type of clients that we have. Sometimes, it’s important to move on beyond a client or I use the term fire a client and move on to something new. There’s the change in the type of people that you work with. Sometimes, your budgets are required that you change either up or down. Some people are really good at embracing growth up, I find it difficult.

CARL 32:23 What do you mean growth up? Why do you find that difficult?

CHRIS 32:26 Okay. So, here’s an example, for probably 15 years I had one DP I ever wanted to work with and it’s my friend John King. I didn’t even think about calling anybody else, “John, I need you to shoot something.” “I’m not available.” “Okay, I’ll move the shoot date.” [laughter] And John, through change and improving his life structure has moved on beyond shooting. And that was like really painful for me. Like, [inaudible] “Who do I call?” [laughter] Luckily, through my contacts with Paul here at Slice, he knew a lot more shooters than me. And so, I was like, “Who do I get?” He goes, “Oh, this guy’s good.” “Oh, but I don’t know him.” [laughter] There’s a great scene in one of the episodes of the West Wing, where it’s a flashback and they have to fire all of the campaign staff and Jed Bartlet is mad at Leo McGarry, because he fired all of the kids that he knew. He was like, “I don’t know any of these new guys.” But, being able to embrace the possibility of bringing on new talent is important. But, the main thing – when we were talking about this yesterday – the main thing that I deal with is – and it’s the big one right now – the death of Final Cut 7. And where do you go, what are you going to do? It’s interesting because so many people that I’ve been talking with, I’m realizing; one, how old I am, and realizing that some of these kids have not worked in this industry prior to Final Cut existing. And that’s kind of shocking. It’s like, “Uh, really?” I worked on 10 or 12 different edit systems before Final Cut. So, they’re looking at it, “What do we do?” I was like, “Well, you do what I did all through the 90’s and all through the 80’s. You’re always on a rotating tool set. You have to find a comfort zone. There’s a beauty of having a comfort zone with the tools that you have because the hunting and pecking for the buttons begins to dissolve away and the creativity really begins to flow.” And, it becomes much easier to work when you’re not hunting and pecking. But to assume that you will always use this tool this day, this month, this year, this career, is naive, and so I think that you always need to be taking a portion of your day or week or year and looking to the future. You know, what is next? What is the next plug-in that I want to learn? What is the next process that I want to master? What is the next application I want to dive into? And, what you do–

MITCH 35:26 [inaudible]

CHRIS 35:27 Go ahead.

MITCH 35:28 I’m sorry, I’m jumping in there, because I think one of the things that’s important for many people that I’ve learned over my 55 years – especially with software development – we had the same kind of changes that you’re talking about with Final Cut and editors, and the thing that always got me through all of those changes was that I kept saying to myself, “The process is still the same. I’m still doing the same functionality.” Yes, the commands are different, the keystrokes are different, or whatever, but if you can learn the basics of an editing tool, or a software, or a software language or just about anything. If you know those basics, you can simply translate in your mind, “Well, this is the way of doing it.” And this editor is not such a big transition.

CHRIS 36:22 Right. Right. I used to say to people–

CARL 36:25 There is something I want to say on that though.

CHRIS 36:28 Okay, go ahead.

CARL 36:32 I worked in software too and you’re right Mitch. There are processes that are the same. But I think the biggest revolutionary change in software was the change in process.

MITCH 36:46 Right.

CARL 36:47 Because for years, software development houses, corporations doing software projects, software development was considered a multi– not just multi-month, but multi-year development effort. And you had this waterfall cycle of development. Let’s go and write a 1000 page requirements document. And nothing happens until that requirement document is done. And then you would go through a change– a requirements review. And then everyone would approve. If there were changes, you went through a change order process where it would take forever to do that. And meanwhile, you had these clever bunch of kids over here just creating web apps in a matter of hours or days. They’re running circles around these companies that were so strongly entrenched in process. And I got to admit, I was one of those guys that was a very process oriented– and I fought it. I fought it for a long time. And then one day, I woke up and said, “Wait a minute. Why am I fighting this? These kids are making money and all I’m doing is spending money trying to reinforce an old way of doing something.” And so that was a– it was a pivotal point in my thinking, saying, “Okay. You know what? These so-called process experts, they’re not experts anymore. The emperor’s not wearing any clothes after all.” So now– [laughter]

CHRIS 38:16 This translates to video production as well. In the olden times, you wrote scripts, you read the treatment, you wrote a script, you have a storyboard of something, you planned it all out, you created your shot list, you showed up on location, you had a crew of ten people or whatever, and you started work. Well nowadays, everything is so compartmentalized and standardized. “I’m doing a customer testimonial. Got it. Dude, camera, audio guy, go.” And, just by giving it that title, customer testimonial, the guys know exactly what to shoot. “Yeah, yeah, yeah. Dude sitting on a computer. Walking through door. Walking down hallways. Sitting on a chalkboard or whiteboard with his– blah, blah, blah.” And it’s going to be the same kind of stuff. And if you dig your heels and you go, “Oh, no. We have to work on this storyboard today.” The kids are going to run right over you. And–

MITCH 39:17 Well, I think– I’m sorry.

CHRIS 39:18 Go ahead.

MITCH 39:19 I think the thing that’s key there to me and to a lot of people, I guess – I don’t know – is that it feels, to me, the rate of change is accelerating rapidly. And I think Carl’s story and your story just eloquently that. For decades, it used to be, this is the way you write software. And now, things are radically different. Things change so much faster now than they ever did before. And that’s hard to deal with.

CHRIS 39:50 Yeah. And I think the key to it is, you could – at a certain age I think – I loved that, was it at AMC? Life Time? Who made the show– the TV show Men of a Certain Age? Did you ever watch that?

MITCH 40:07 Yes!

CHRIS 40:09 I loved it. I thought it was great with Everybody Loves Raymond and Scott Bakula and the other dude. [laughter] Sorry other dude I don’t remember your name, but you get to a certain age where you make a choice, you have to make a choice. It’s either I am going to say, “Yep, no, no. This is the way I do it, I’m done. I’m not changing.” and you can be that technological Statler and Waldorf sitting on the balcony just heckling everybody, saying, “Kids these day’s,” or–

CARL 40:43 I think I mentioned that on the show the other day, but Chris Simmons has a series called Expert Interrogation’s, and there’s this older guy on there who’s just – he’s just downing everything about YouTube. [laughter] He finally got booted from– he got booted from the chat room because he was such a downer, Debbie Downer on this thing.

CHRIS 41:05 What was his beef with YouTube?

CARL 41:06 Well he was just saying there’s no– “None of my customers have any need for YouTube.” or something like that–

CHRIS 41:15 That’s right. That’s because, your customers are now my customers. [laughter]

MITCH 41:21 How does [inaudible] by the way?

CHRIS 41:23 YouTube was 2005.

MITCH 41:25 Doesn’t it seem like it’s been around forever and yet it’s only…

CHRIS 41:28 Eight years old? Yes, it’s crazy.

CARL 41:30 Well, speaking of change– Ron are you still there?

RON 41:33 I’m still here. [laughter]

CARL 41:35 Speaking of change, where’s Ron? [laughter]

RON 41:37 I’m trying to be easy on the transcriptors so that…

MITCH 41:41 Oh, right.

CARL 41:43 Don’t make their jobs easy. [laughter] I mean, we love the transcriptors. Don’t get me wrong transcriptors. [chuckles]

RON 41:49 Right. My take on the whole change thing is that- I love what Chris had written in the– since everyone, I told– Chris, you need to make that a blog post.

CARL 42:02 I agree.

RON 42:03 It’s beautifully written. It can be [inaudible]–

CARL 42:05 [inaudible] blog post.

RON 42:05 But, this idea of change and embracing it is key. It’s not even so much technology that changes, I think that’s obviously something that changes and often times artists – particularly artists who are really married to or in love with their current technology – find hard to embrace technological change. But, there’s also changes in business processes. The way you look at marketing, the way you look at sales. Are you embracing that way of change? And, sometimes technological changes bring about business processes changes. So, the way you would go about selling your services, the way you would go about presenting your content or making a living, let’s say, in Hollywood, used to be one way but, because of the advent of online distribution and high-speed bandwidth, you now have the power to do things like what Ed Burns does – the film maker Edward Burns – he does everything. He creates a movie and goes straight to iTunes and straight to other VOD sites. So, he’s bypassing Hollywood all together. So, the way of doing business in Hollywood, let’s say, has changed because technology is changing. And sometimes when companies don’t keep up with that they fall behind. I mean, blockbusters probably a great example of that. [laughter] They took too long to change. And by the time they tried to catch up and offer things like Red Box or offer things like a subscription, mail and service like Netflix, it was too late.

MITCH 43:38 Yeah, they’re [inaudible].

RON 43:40 But, that doesn’t mean Netflix should rest on it’s laurels. I mean Red Box seems to have come out of nowhere in terms of it’s offering, and they’re already started offering a mail service now. And so Netflix, to their credit, they’re starting to do things differently. One of the big things that is huge for them is producing original content. Original T. V. shows, like this House of Cards, starring Kevin Spacey, produced and directed Dave Fincher, a hundred million dollars invested. I mean, that’s huge. And, it’s become the number one show on Netflix. It’s entire season delivered at once. So, you’re not waiting every week.

MITCH 44:23 Really?

RON 44:24 Yeah.

MITCH 44:24 I need to see that.

RON 44:25 Yeah.

CHRIS 44:26 Oh, it’s really good. I watched it in a day and a half.
RON 44:28 Yeah, and so this idea of people absorbing content all in one sitting, versus having to wait week after week, that’s going to be a challenge to the cable programs and–

MITCH 44:41 Well, I think that’s really true too. I’m going to jump in on that, Ron.

RON 44:45 Yeah. Sure.

MITCH 44:47 My wife and I are both in that mode as well where we will wait until an entire season of a show is on DVD or now on Netflix before we even watch them. We’re not stuck necessarily on this, “Oh, I got to see this week’s episode.” Because it feels more– it’s more interesting to see them all at once or all within a week or whatever. So, I think that’s a very interesting motive that is happening now.
RON 45:17 Yeah. And, we don’t even pay for cable TV. It’s funny, I always get these offers from AT&T, U-verse, and they say, “You can get all these channels.” And I tell them, “We actually don’t watch TV.” And sometimes, they don’t know what to do with that. [laughter] I tell people I don’t watch TV, and they’re like, “Really, you don’t watch–” “No, we don’t watch TV.” I mean, everything I want to watch, I either wait to it on Netflix or it comes out on DVD. On rare occasions where I have to catch a TV show, I have friends. So, like with Oscars– a few weeks ago, I–

CHRIS 45:48 I liked Joey Tribbiani by the way. [laughter] Oh, not that friends, never mind.

RON 45:52 Right, right. You’re right. [Laughter] So, like I’ll buy a whole season of a show and then watch it in. The curviate is you have to avoid things like entertainment. You have to be careful when you read Entertainment Weekly or TV shows or get spoilers but–

CHRIS 46:11 The death of the water cooler moment. [laughter]
RON 46:12 Yes, yes.

CHRIS 46:13 That’s what– so what has changed in your business practices, Ron?

RON 46:21 Well, that’s a good question. I think one of the changes that I’m really trying to embrace is original content creation. I think that there are more and more companies that kind of doing it yourself. I mean, let’s see what the really higher upper epsilon of commercial video production where– you can’t make a 1980 — like that Apple’s famous 1984 commercial, you can’t do that by yourself. A lot of these commercials, you need a professional house that can make it. But a lot of companies, smaller, non-pot companies are learning, Final Cut Pro, and even iMovie and [inaudible] Lars, and they’re making their own little splash paid videos, and yeah, a lot of them are crappy but for them it’s good enough. And so, in last year you have access to those really high-end commercial outlets that’s affecting the smaller commercial video producer to get jobs. And so instead of complaining about it, I’m embracing it. So one, I’m adding more education to my content in terms of services. I want to start doing more education and teaching companies how to do it. So join them instead of complaining about it.

CHRIS 47:32 Are you saying that you are going to participate in more education or you are going to do more educating?

RON 47:38 Exactly. I’m going to do more educating. So working with– educating companies who do want to do it themselves and consulting them and saying, “Okay, if they’re going to do it anyway, let’s teach them how to do it right and let me get paid to be taught to them.” So, maybe they won’t hire me to make the video, but they will hire to teach them how to make it. Teach–

CHRIS 47:58 Interesting.

RON 47:59 So, that’s one way I’m changing my business model. But the other is, again, being inspired by people like Carl, producing my own content and using that as a way of eventually generating revenues. So that a few years down the line, I have a portfolio of original content that’s generating income every time someone buys it or downloads it or what. And so, I’m slowly moving in that direction. And, I’m willing to make changes in my business and in my career in order to allow for that to happen because I think that’s the way that it’s going. I think those are two ways in which I’m embracing change.

CARL 48:45 How about you Mitch?

MITCH 48:50 My life has been nothing but change, I think.

CHRIS 48:52 Totally. Mitch is like the poster child for the whole changing economy from–

CARL 48:59 As well as the reaction of hating change. [laughter] Not from Mitch, but from people who are affected by the changes that he, of necessity, is having to go through.

CHRIS 49:10 Well, I’m actually going back to just the whole changing economy when Mitch– I mean, Mitch had start – if people don’t know, and I’m going to tell one or two Mitch’s [inaudible] a little bit – Mitch started the website when he still had a full-time job because he just loved it. And then, he lost his job and he’s like, “Okay. Well–” And he just jumped wholeheartedly into the website and now makes a living from it or so I’m told.

MITCH 49:38 Yes.

CHRIS 49:38 But I’m– and so Mitch has made the change to this whole new– to me, I call it the internet economy. I mean, if it weren’t for the internet, you would have no business right now.

MITCH 49:52 Yeah. Absolutely.

CHRIS 49:54 And so to me, that’s an internet economy. I mean, I look at all the work that I’ve done over the years on my website just either pontificating or sharing or tutorializing or something. I’d be hard pressed to buy us all a sandwich based on the money that I’ve made off of it. So I can’t do it, you’re doing it, and it’s impressive. That kind of stuff impresses me. And then of course, like I’ve mentioned, the whole merging of the Cinema5D Forums into your staff. Yeah, that’s part of it too.
MITCH 50:29 Well, one of the biggest lessons, I think– and again, I’m 55 so I can try to teach the youngsters, right?

CHRIS 50:37 The kids.

MITCH 50:40 I really think that the people who survive change the best are those who don’t have an immediate knee jerk reaction and get all whacked out about the change. If you would just take pause, [chuckle] and think about it and let it– my wife has actually taught me this. I’ll give her the tutelage on this one. She used to tell me, “Don’t react to an email that upsets you right away. Sleep on it. Think about it.” And I’ve had to do that quite a few times in the last week.

RON 51:21 That’s a lesson I learned from my wife as well.

MITCH 51:23 Is it?

RON 51:24 Yeah.

MITCH 51:25 Great [inaudible].

RON 51:26 Yeah.

MITCH 51:27 So if you just take pause and don’t just suddenly go blasting, “Well, this is the worst thing ever. This is sucks. This is never going to work out.” The Cinema5D moved– the Forum moved, now again, the whole Cinema5D hasn’t moved. They’re still doing new stuff over on their website. Let’s make that clear, because I’ve been told I’m not making that clear enough. Cinema5D still exists. It’s just the forums that have moved over. But, in the week and two days since it’s happened. Everybody’s calmed down. People are contributing. They’re enjoying the threads. They’re sending emails saying, “This is great. We’re glad to have somebody focusing on this forum again.” So, the initial reaction is over, I think. And, life is moving on and people are adjusting.

CARL 52:21 I have a question. Maybe it’s related to this whole change issue but I’ve noticed a lot of people – and some of them are listeners to this podcast, I know – they’ve changed their avatars in Twitter to green. What is that about?
CHRIS 52:36 It’s a way of participating and not really helping.
CARL 52:39 Oh, no, no, no. [chuckle]

RON 52:40 I’ve noticed that too. [laughter]

CHRIS 52:44 It’s the, “Support the visual effects community.” After the Oscar’s, one of the– I think it was Life of Pi, it gotten zero recognition for it’s VFX and so all the– and then what is it? Rhythm and Hues, I think is the company that has filed for Chapter 11 in Effects House and they’re “Here it is,” all these movies that basically can’t be made without visual effects. And, the VFX community is complaining that they’re not getting any recognition or money.

CARL 53:21 Well, I thought they did get recognition for the Life of Pi.

RON 53:24 Yes, they won the Oscar for the visual effects.

MITCH 53:26 Yes, but now they’re going out of business.

CARL 53:27 Okay. So who’s fault is that?

RON 53:28 And yet the company–

CHRIS 53:30 Well, I would say [chuckle] it is the fault of the people taking the jobs. If you value what you do, you don’t take a job for less money than you feel you’re worth. And–

MITCH 53:45 I think the back-story there, if I could just interrupt, is that several companies are bidding for the visual effects on movies. And they end up underbidding each other, and therefore, they’re not making any money. But they feel like they have to have the jobs in order to keep their people employed. So they’re stuck in this circle of winning a bid, but not making any money at it.

CARL 54:08 Right.

CHRIS 54:09 [inaudible]

CARL 54:09 And so– go ahead, Chris.

CHRIS 54:11 So this kind of behavior is very short-sighted, because what it means is, as a person who needs– okay, so as a movie producer, if all you care about is getting, buying the space shuttle from the lowest bidder – that was the old joke of the astronaut thing, “Good grief, we’re sitting on top of this thing that’s about to take us into outer space, now it’s built by the lowest bidder.” – your providers will not be there for you long-term because you’re forcing them to take jobs at a rate that is not sustainable. It doesn’t allow for a long-term sustainability. And if that’s all you care about then that’s good for you, because you will work with company A on film A but by the time you get to doing film B, company A will be out of business. So you’ll have to find another company to work with because you didn’t pay the guy enough to keep his doors open. But it’s also goes down to– I really think it starts at the guy sitting at the mouse. Don’t take a job if you’re not making enough money for it. Find a better job. Find another job. Maybe you won’t be working on some Hollywood feature but it’s not good business practice to keep taking jobs that don’t pay enough. And that’s what ends up happening. So the green icon goes back to what would life be like without a VFX compositor. What would be all if everybody standing on green backgrounds.

CARL 55:57 Okay.

RON 55:58 And, I think, well, actually–

CARL 55:59 I’m sorry, Ron, go ahead.

RON 56:00 No, I was going to say quickly, regarding the Life of Pi, I think Life of Pi also won “Best Cinematography”, and since so much of that movie was VFX, I think maybe people felt like the cinematography got more press and more recognition for stuff that was really related to the visual effects. That’s what I think.

CARL 56:25 I don’t know the first thing about that movie, except there’s a tiger and a boat. [laughter]

RON 56:31 Well, here’s an interesting thing, I was listening to a podcast that’s for writers, it’s called The Q&A with Jeff Goldsmith, and he was interviewing the writer of Life of Pi – or the Life of Pi was one of the writer’s on the panel – and the writer was talking about– there was a question regarding the pre-production costs that are considered when you’re actually writing a script, and the producer was sitting with the writer, and they were going over this scene, and I haven’t seen the movie, but this is a scene where, I guess, a bunch of little meerkats are running around the island, and the producer was saying to the scriptwriter who wrote this scene, “Do you think we can reduce the number of these meerkats scenes, because every time we show one, it costs $23,000.”

MITCH 57:12 [chuckles] Yikes.

RON 57:12 And he was like, “Are you serious?” And she’s like, “Yeah. No joke. Every time there was a meerkat on the screen, it’s going to cost $23,000.” So, I don’t know. I thought that was interesting aside. And maybe it’s related to all of this – I don’t know – but I though that was interesting.

CHRIS 57:32 Is it because of the animal wranglers or these digital meerkats?

RON 57:36 These look– digital meerkats. No, these were digital– everything in that movie that was animal, supposedly, is digital. And, so these are all digital meerkats running around. And, so the visual effect shot– each visual effect shot with those meerkats was costing– would cost $23,000.

CHRIS 57:54 Wow.

RON 57:55 Yeah.

CARL 57:57 Well, this all goes back to our discussion. And I don’t want to put down any of the visual effects artists and people who do this. They do great work. But, I do see that a lot of people just do not have very good business sense. And, I agree with Chris. You have to price yourself right. I’ve bid on jobs and I’m not the lowest bidder, and I have been accepted as not the lowest bidder. [chuckle]

CHRIS 58:26 Right.

CARL 58:26 Because the company puts value on what I do. And so, now I’ve got a couple of points on the equation or variables in the equation there that says, “This is somebody I want to work with because they value my work.” And it’s going to be a much better experience as a result because you’re going to value what’s going in there. And I’m going to make a profit at what I’m doing. I don’t do low-ball stuff. It’s just not worth my time. I’m not in a charity business. I contribute to charities, but I am not a non-profit. [laughter] Does that make sense?

CHRIS 59:02 Not by design.

CARL 59:03 Yeah. Exactly.

CHRIS 59:04 I was dealing with a cameraman once who had given up– he was telling me a story about giving a bid to a client. And they looked at the bid and they’re like, “Are you kidding me? Is this– What is this like a hobby for you or what?” And, the client was actually appalled that the guy had bid something so low. And, you have to remember that sometimes bidding low puts a– it sets the tone for the relationship that you have with that person. And it also might mean that somebody goes, “Oh, obviously you don’t know what you’re doing.” If that’s all you think your time is worth, I want to work with somebody who respects themselves a little bit more than that.
CARL 60:01 But let’s turn it all upside-down now, okay? So, I agree with all that. But now, when I first started shooting video regularly, I was doing a lot of customer testimonials, interviews, the head shots, talking heads, that sort of thing. And now, there’s just a plethora of courses out there that one of our listeners– I can’t pronounce his last name. Jay Mutzafi, I believe. He has a course on doing iPhone– how corporate people, businesses can use iPhones to create their own videos. How-to videos. Man, you talk about turning a business model upside-down. [laughter]

CHRIS 60:41 Thanks Jay.

CARL 60:41 Yeah. But is Jay doing the wrong thing? I think Jay’s killing it, because he’s making money off this course and I applaud that. I applaud him for it.

CHRIS 60:52 And apparently off of this show.

CARL 60:53 Yeah. [laughter] I applaud– well, his courses was just featured on App Sumo, which is a company that does a lot of affiliate marketing to thousands of customers. And they’ve been immensely successful in the way they do their affiliate marketing. Where does that fit in? Is that a bad thing?

CHRIS 61:20 No. It’s embracing the change. If I think that I can continue to do exactly what I’m doing today till the end of my career, I’d be foolish. My career is taking– It’s interesting because I’ve been in the video production industry now, I’ll say for 30 years. The first professional thing that I tried to do was thirty years ago this Spring. I’ve seen my business change immensely over those 30 years. For the first, nearly a decade, I was just a for hire dude. A dude in a telephone. I would come in and push– I would push your buttons, in more ways than one. I would run your gear. Twenty years ago I started buying equipment. So it’s changed immensely and you have to be– you’ve one eye on the future and one eye on your desk. And every once in a while you can stop and reminisce about the past but you have to be looking towards the future and saying, “What are the trends?” “What’s going to be different?” “What can I do today to be ready for that?” But then you also have to be good at keeping your head down on occasion and just concentrating on what you’re doing. Otherwise what you’re doing today will suffer.

CARL 62:50 Doesn’t it seem like the persons or people who are being hurt the most or affected – I shouldn’t say hurt but, well, I guess it is hurt depending on how you bend with it – that’s being affected by change is the middleman. They’re being eliminated.

CHRIS 63:07 Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean the middle class is being eliminated. We have that issue too. Actually, I posted something on my blog a couple of days ago. It’s a fascinating after effects project but it’s also a very interesting story. It’s called– I call it, “Wealth is fleeting.” And its this info-graphic about wealth in America. It’s very interesting. I would recommend–

MITCH 63:30 Oh, no.

CHRIS 63:30 –you guys watch it. No?

MITCH 63:32 It’d scare me. [chuckles]

CHRIS 63:34 Oh, I know, it’s horribly frightening. It’s horribly frightening. But it’s a wonderfully created info-graphic too.

CARL 63:41 So, let’s leave something positive for their listeners though. It’s a given —

CHRIS 63:46 I’m positive about this leaving. [laughter]

CARL 63:48 –business model– all these business models are changing. What can we do to encourage folks to embrace it rather than be run over by it?

CHRIS 63:57 I think you have to find people that are ahead of you and doing well, and learn from them.

MITCH 64:09 Don’t suddenly react. Take time to think about the changes and embrace them as they come.

RON 64:16 Be open minded. Follow and look at trail blazers who are doing amazing things in your industry and see who’s successful in your industry and why they’re successful. Chances are they’re people who have embraced change, and use them as role models.

CHRIS 64:39 Be nice to kittens. [laughter]

CARL 64:42 And, on that note… [chuckle]. I’d like to talk about Kre8 Insights. If you want to get on the fast track to success in video production and film making, you need to check out It’s a membership site. In fact, our DCP listeners can get a free trial to that, 30 day trial. No credit card is required. You can take a peek inside behind the doors and see what Chris Simmons and Michael Gebben and all their experts that they’ve brought in talking about video business. And one of the things that they do is– I know Chris personally, he is a person who embraces change. And it’s a topic that comes up often within Kre8 Insight. And also on their podcast Expert Interrogations. Ron, you’re going to be on Expert Interrogations, right?

RON 65:39 Yeah. I think I’m scheduled for next Tuesday, and either I bought those about it. But it’s– obviously, I think you can ask any questions that are available, but I want to address and cover a lot of topics with specifically to finding, recruiting, and managing contractor help. Because, one, I think that’s a great way of being able to grow and expand your business, and two, it’s a great way to being able to help balance the workload and the backlog.

MITCH 66:13 Boy, do I need that.

CARL 66:15 Yeah. That’s cool. That’s going to be a cool topic. Yesterday, they had Brett Culp.

RON 66:23 Brett is awesome.

CARL 66:24 Yeah. I didn’t get to sit in live on it yesterday because I was away. But, you know what’s cool? They have instant replays, so you can check out the archives and see all the interesting people. I’ll give you one that’s an interesting one. I would encourage our listeners to go look James, the episode featuring James Wedmore, online video marketing expert. That one there is a million dollar episode.

RON 66:53 Yeah. He was on Creative Live a few or so months ago.
CARL 66:58 Yeah. He’s doing good. I got a lot of good tips out of watching that episode. I’m going to be on tomorrow, so I’d like to encourage all the digital convergence team if you can join us live tomorrow, that’s at– [inaudible] prepared. Let me–

MITCH 67:16 [inaudible] 2:00 Central?

CARL 67:19 It is. Mine is scheduled for 3pm.

MITCH 67:24 3pm Eastern. 2pm Central, right?

CARL 67:26 Yeah. Okay, yeah. So, 3pm Eastern, 2pm… So, it will be about an hour, maybe a little over an hour. You get to ask questions. I’ll be talking about my business model, plus whatever helps our listeners are interested in, but I will be talking a lot about doing– creating your own content and marketing that for your business.

RON 67:53 And what’s nice is, it’s free. I mean…

CARL 67:55 Yeah.

CHRIS 67:58 The interrogations thing is free.

MITCH 68:00 Right.

CARL 68:01 Yeah. Uses of–

CHRIS 68:01 [inaudible]?

CHRIS 68:02 Yeah, its– you have that, that’s not in the membership. That’s just free. You don’t have to be a member, but once you see this you say, “Wow! There’s a lot of cool stuff here.” So, anyway check it out, And, you can sign up for the trial at kre8– excuse me, I got to say this right –, to get your free 30 day membership. Alright, awesome. A little bit of feedback. I got one question. And, it’s from Travis Wilbur. It says, ‘Any advice or methods on the best way to write scripts for clients, especially for short promo videos?’ No. [laughter]

CHRIS 68:54 I was just trying to be polite. I have plenty to say.
CARL 68:57 No, well–

MITCH 68:58 I mean, has he looked into programs like Final Draft, or Movie Magic Screenwriter.

CHRIS 69:02 [inaudible].

CARL 69:02 He doesn’t say– he didn’t say. That’s what he’s asking. What is the best way to write scripts for clients?

CHRIS 69:07 No, I think he’s getting at the content. I think what you- I don’t think he’s worried about what software he’s going to use, I think he’s trying to figure out how to garner content from a client, when you’re dealing with somebody– like he says here, a short promo videos. I mean, a lot of times we’re dealing with things that are contextually outside of our realm of expertise. I think one of the best videos that I personally have produced, was one I did for– actually Carl, it was the one that played– it was the opening video that you saw in Atlanta last year. And, the way I did that – I actually worked very closely with the VP of marketing for the company – and what I did is I said, “Look, I want you to write what you think you’d like to say to people in 90 seconds.” And he wrote down some stuff, and I took it, and then I changed it and modified it, and picked a few different words that I thought would fit better and then– he actually started it and we went back and forth a couple of drafts to the point where we got it to what you saw. And so, I think one of the best ways to deal with clients is to get their participation. You’ll– especially if your dealing with something that your not an expert in. Quite often we don’t have the time to become an expert in something.

MITCH 70:31 Yeah, tell me about it!

CARL 70:33 Now, how do you handle that Ron?

RON 70:36 So, assuming that’s what he’s talking about and he’s not specifically looking for– okay, what type of program do you use?

MITCH 70:41 How do I tab in?

RON 70:43 Right [inaudible]–

MITCH 70:44 I think, something that’s good to have.

RON 70:46 I think what Chris said is actually great. I, actually, recently, just did that. We need to do a voice over, a script for a recent project we finished. And, I had the client write the voice-over. And then I went in and I tweaked it and made it – for lack of better words – cinematic and story-driven and made it sound good. So, what I’m getting from the client, like a rough draft of what they would want to say and then you’re using your expertise as a story-teller or film maker to improve upon it. I have my corporate clients, commercial clients, fill out a form or questionnaire that answers questions like, “What’s your brand?” “Who’s the audience?” “What’s the message you want to get across?” “What’s the objective of the video?” I personally think the most effective videos are ones that have a very specific objective in mind, rather than trying to be everything. It’s a promotional video, and it’s an educational video, and it’s a client testimonial; now find one objective or maybe two at tops, but one primary objective. Like, ‘The purpose of this video is to have people click through the website.’ or ‘The purpose of this video is to increase buyer appreciation.’ ‘Purpose of this video is to get people to buy,’ whatever it is. And then I gather all that answers to all those questions. Now, can I use that to drive a script if I have a script? But frankly, majority of the work I do for my commercial clients is more documentary-based. And so instead of writing a specific script, I’m interviewing key stakeholders in the company, customers, that sort of thing, and I am taking all those interviews and sound bites in weaving them together in a way that sounds, to me frankly, more authentic than often times scripted videos may sound. I think having a scripted video can be a tricky thing if you don’t, one, have professionals who can actually deliver the script well. You’d be amazed at how stuttered a script can sound when you have someone who doesn’t really know how to eloquently recite it. So, sometimes I find it’s better to just have people talk about the product or service from their own words and then you kind of edit it to make it sound good. But, if you have to have a script, those are some of the things that I suggest.

CARL 73:14 Very good. My videos are very different. Well, I shouldn’t say very different. But they’re how-to’s, right? Tutorials is the kind of thing I do these days. So, our basic outline is: tell them what they’re going to learn, tell them why they need to know it and what the value is to them, then show them how to do it step by step, and then wrap up and say here’s what you learned and give them confidence that they’re going to be able to apply what they’ve learned. And it’s just bullet points. And then Jeremy does most of the script writing, so he’s got his bullet points that he talks from. Of course he knows the subject very well. So I really don’t have to do any scripting, to tell you truth [laughter]. He does it, and I look it, I review it and say, “Yeah, let’s make this change here,” but he does the bulk of the work and does a good job with it.

CHRIS 74:06 I have a good money making tip when it comes to things like this. A lot of times you’ll run into a client who, like Ron was saying, what is the primary objective of this particular video? And this is what happens a lot; “Well, we want this, but we figured it’d be nice if it did this, this and this too.” And all of a sudden your message gets watered down because you’re trying to say four things instead of one.

RON 74:30 Right.

CHRIS 74:30 What actually works really well at that point is to say– is to tell them, and to inform them how their message is going to get watered down and get confusing, but while we’re here and we’ve got all this stuff let’s make that other video. Because you’ve already started the relationship, you’ve already– you can shoot three or four videos in a day, so let’s expand the scope of this purchase order and maybe we can do a video for that department and one for this, instead of trying to do everything in one thing and having it lose it’s effectiveness.

RON 75:11 Yeah, I’ve used that really well–

CHRIS 75:12 You can use that as an up-sell.

RON 75:14 Yeah, I’ve used that effectively in my business. Up-selling…

CHRIS 75:19 Up-selling sounds dirty but that’s basically what it is.

RON 75:22 Well, it’s like, “Do you want fries with that?” [laghter]
They’ll hire me to do a traditional promo video, and then I’ll do exactly what Chris said–

CHRIS 75:36 Would you like to super size your video?

RON 75:38 Yeah, how about we tack on two additional client testimonial videos. They’re not as “fancy” as the main video. They’re kind of stand alone supplements, or rather complimentary videos to the main one. And, add 5% or 10% or more to the bottom line contract by the additional editing work for those videos. And, they don’t necessarily take a lot of extra time. It could be as easy as you grab a one minute sound bite and you just add an opening and a closing to it and you add an additional $500 to a $5000 contract. And, to the clients it’s like– it may not be any skin off their teeth adding that extra budget and you get 10% more money [inaudible].

CHRIS 76:27 We had Peter Dupre on the show awhile back, and he has a thing on his website and going to put this in the show now. Where he explains how he can turn one video into multiple media clips for somebody’s website. And, it’s a really good strategy of his that he uses with his clients all the time. And, I will put that link in the Media Creations Strategy in the show notes. I’ll mail that to you.

CARL 76:53 Excellent. Those are good tips really–

CHRIS 76:56 Free stuff for our listeners, no extra charge.

CARL 76:59 Mitch.

MITCH 77:00 I want to throw in just a tid bit, which I find interesting how things always appear at the same time. I just got a press release the other day from a gentleman who has created his own service which is script-writing. And, he’s at, that’s So, it’s an option if you’re not really good at writing stuff he can help you write stuff I’m sure.

CARL 77:27 Cool. Cool tip. So we’re coming up on an hour and a half —

MITCH 77:34 Really?

CARL 77:34 Yes. This an hour podcast, but it’s never been an hour. [laughter] So, we need to move on. Ron, do you have a product pick or tip that you would like to leave our listeners today?

RON 77:46 Not one that comes to mind. If I think of one…

CARL 77:54 No problem. Put you on the spot.

CHRIS 77:56 [inaudible]

CARL 77:58 Alright, Chris. Tell us what you want?

CHRIS 77:59 Is it product pick? Is that we’re doing now?

CARL 78:02 Yes. I forgot to do sound didn’t I?

CHRIS 78:05 Yeah, I can’t–

CARL 78:06 I just totally threw you off–

CHRIS 78:08 Now, I got it. I got it.

CARL 78:09 Good. Now, we’re on the mood. Okay.

CHRIS 78:11 Well, I was over a client the other day – just yesterday – and they were setting up this– they were mocking up a video testimonial booth that they were going to do at some event where you just walk in, and push a button, and go [inaudible], and you do your little thing. And, they lit it with this really cool Rosco light panel, and there’s a ton of LED panels out there. I just bought a new ring light for our DSLRs, which cool, but this Rosco thing was awesome. It was like a little– imagine like – wonder what that’d be – about a quarter inch thick piece of plexiglass that just glows bright, and that’s all it was. It was just fantastic. So, I have a link to it in the show notes, it’s called the Light Pad HO. I don’t know why it’s called HO, but there will be a link to that in the show note. Very cool.

CARL 79:05 Very cool. Yeah.

CHRIS 79:06 It’s just this piece of plexiglass that just glows. Very, very interesting.

CARL 79:11 Awesome. Awesome. Okay, Planet Mitch.

MITCH 79:14 I posted something the other day that was sent in by one of our new bloggers, Kevin – I’m never going to get his last name – Aldamar. And, he has been using a Canon X Series 3– I’m sorry, X Series, 3X’s Giro. I can’t talk today. Now, I’ve never used one of these, and it’s fascinating because he does a lot of work like, driving– shooting a car commercial or something. If you’re driving in a car and they’re driving a car and you’re trying to film them, you’re film is going to be shaky because, there’s no way you’re going to get that thing to be solid while you’re in a moving vehicle, especially moving fast. So, he wrote this guest post about using this new Canon X Series, 3X’s Giro, which he got from LensPro ToGo for a couple hundred bucks for a couple of days to smooth out his video while he was shooting. So, I thought that was pretty cool.

CARL 80:16 Excellent. Hey, I’ve got a fun one. I haven’t done a product pick in a long time. But, you know how you go to a trade show or some event wearing a name tag?

CHRIS 80:27 Yes.

CARL 80:28 There’s one that’s a video badge. Have you seen this?

CHRIS 80:31 I’ve actually created video for those before.

CARL 80:34 Get out of here.

CHRIS 80:35 Yeah.

CARL 80:36 It’s called the video promo badge.

RON 80:37 Really?

CHRIS 80:38 Okay.

CARL 80:38 Yeah. It’s 150 bucks. You wear this thing. It’s about the size of a name clip and it’s got the video on there. What better way to draw attention to yourself and look like a geek? [laughter]

CHRIS 80:50 No kidding. My wonder was, they were– the video I created was to be worn by the people that manned a particular booth.

CARL 81:02 Exactly. Yeah.

CHRIS 81:03 And I was like, “Really? Do women want people starring at their chest even more?” [laughter] I just thought it was really odd.

CARL 81:11 Yeah. Oh, well.

CHRIS 81:13 And then, the worst part about it is I actually had – because of the client – we actually had to put a lawyer disclaimer as part of the badge.

MITCH 81:23 Oh, no.

CHRIS 81:24 I kid you not.

CARL 81:26 A lawyer disclaimer?

CHRIS 81:27 Yeah. Like–

RON 81:28 But–

CHRIS 81:28 “Because the content on this video badge has been approved and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.” Yeah, ridiculous.

MITCH 81:34 Oh, my.

CHRIS 81:34 I kid you not.

CARL 81:36 I can see us using it at Reetz TV when we go to a trade show.

CHRIS 81:41 Yeah.

CARL 81:41 Yeah. See, all our sales people would be in the booth, will be manning the booth and see little Reetz TV events going on. Of course, it would be hard to hold a person’s attention while you’re trying to talk to them. They’re watching your lapel badge.

MITCH 81:56 My eyes are up here. [laughter]

CARL 82:00 Oh, well. That may not be such a good pick, but I thought it was such a noble, noble idea. I’ve never seen these things before.

CHRIS 82:07 I actually did the video. I want to say about two years ago now, they’ve been around. They’re probably just more affordable so we’re starting to see more.

CARL 82:16 Yeah, about 150– I bet they’ll come on down, especially as they come up with those new materials, LED type materials that’s just on a flexible sheet and that sort of thing, use very low power.

CHRIS 82:29 Yeah. That’d be pretty cool.

CARL 82:31 Well, Chris is there anything you have not shot video for?

CHRIS 82:35 Well I didn’t shoot– This was all an after effects project actually.

CARL 82:38 Okay cool!

CHRIS 82:39 It was an animated thingamajig.

CARL 82:41 Alright, well let’s wrap up the show guys. So, Ron really appreciate you being on the show with us today talking about change.

RON 82:49 Yeah, I love having– love you having me on [laughter].
MITCH 82:54 Nobody can talk this way [laughter].

CHRIS 82:55 Thanks for inviting us to your show Ron [laughter].

CARL 83:00 So, what can we expect when crossing the 180?

RON 83:05 Well I’m excited to have– have you heard of Freddy

CARL 83:10 Yes, I have.

RON 83:11 Yeah. Well, I got a tweet confirmation from him to be the guest for my 100th episode, so I sent a tweet out to him saying, “I’d like to have you on.” He Tweeted back, “I’m down.” Now, it’s just a matter of actually trying to wrangle that in–

CARL 83:28 Wait a minute. So, “I’m down” means “Yes” or “I’m sick”? [chuckles]

RON 83:33 No, I think it means “yes”, as in I’m down
CHRIS 83:35 I’m down brother. [inaudible]

RON 83:36 Yeah, exactly.

CARL 83:37 I’m trying to improve my vocabulary here. [chuckles] I want to get with it here.

CHRIS 83:41 Yeah.

CARL 83:42 But cool.

RON 83:44 Yeah, but this Friday I have Salomon Lightelm, who is an amazing film maker out of Australia. A lot of people out there I’m sure have seen his work. He’s done some really cool stuff with Twixtor and he’s worked with the guys out of ‘We Are Variable’ in New York, and he’s going to be on this Friday. Definitely worth listening to his stuff if you like Salomon Lightelm’s work.

CARL 84:08 Very nice. Planet Mitch, what could people find out about you and what you’re up to?

MITCH 84:13 I’m purely up to the forums at

CARL 84:17 Hey, what’s trending on the forums right now?

MITCH 84:20 Anything I say. [laughter]

CARL 84:24 I was trying to be serious here. Is it Blackmagic Cinema, is it Canon 5D Mark IV, an Nikon 70 100? I don’t know. What are people talking about?

MITCH 84:39 I think it’s still very difficult to get people talking about some of the lesser known brands. Even though the Blackmagic’s got a lot of conversation, its traffic on the forums is pretty low. Most people are still talking about Canon, making movies with Canon H DSLRs. But we’d like to expand that of course. We want people to talk about Nikons and Panasonics and Sonys and Blackmagics and whatever else they’re using.

CARL 85:08 Yeah, cool. Okay. Chris Fenwick?

CHRIS 85:11 You should go to my website because I have fun stuff on it. Actually, I just posted a couple videos yesterday about–

CARL 85:17 Those were hilarious.

CHRIS 85:18 The Oreo Separators.

CARL 85:20 Oreo Separators. OSM baby.

CHRIS 85:23 Yeah, I call it OSM. It’s an acronym. Anyway, really funny stuff. Go check that out, and there’s some tutorials too, so and Chris Fenwick on Twitter. And, go check out Vine on your iPhone. I think I mentioned it last week didn’t I?

CARL 85:38 Yeah.

CHRIS 85:38 The Vine app. I’m really digging Vine. It’s really fun. Six-second videos. You can have multiple shots in it. You have to shoot it basically in the camera. There’s no post-production, and it’s just, they’re fun, they’re fun.

CARL 85:53 You know what, I should have downloaded it and did a Vine video of this podcast being recorded.

CHRIS 85:58 Or one of cutters.

MITCH 86:01 Six seconds worth?

CHRIS 86:03 Yeah, it’s really fun. So basically you turn on the camera and if you touch the screen, it records. So you can say, “Okay, here I am walking into the room,” touch, let go. That’s your establishing shot. Then you walk in, you go, “Oh, two people sitting down.” Touch, let go. “Oh, and now, let’s hear what this person has to say.” Touch. And it shows you a progress bar, you’ve used this much of your six seconds. And then when it’s done, it ends up making a six second animated gif loop with audio. I don’t know if it’s a gif. I don’t know what it is. But it’s a little six second loop. And some of the people that make really clever Vines, they kind of play on that loop thing. So where is the beginning, where is the end, I don’t really know, it’s kind of fun. It’s the Matrix.

CARL 86:51 Very nice. All right. You can find me, Carl Olson, at I’m on Twitter as ‘the Carl Olson’, O-L-S-O-N. Remember tomorrow I’ll be on Expert Interrogations at 3pm Eastern standard time, Expert Interrogations. So join us there. Ask your questions, I’ll try to answer them. So that should be fun. I have to admit, I have to get my little butterflies flying in my stomach in formation, but I’ll be okay. [Chuckles]
CHRIS 87:27 You do it all the time.

CARL 87:28 Yeah. And let’s see, what else? I guess that’s about it. So I do want to thank our sponsors at CrumplePop, film and broadcast effects for Final Cut Pro, and, helping talented and passionate filmmakers become successful entrepreneurs. Visit their website today for proven strategies that can help you grow your business. That’s Do continue to leave us feedback in iTunes and rate us there. We really appreciate everyone’s support of that. Keep spreading the word about the podcast. Share it with a friend, or share it with someone who’s not a friend. [Laughter] Just share it with someone you think would appreciate just hearing a bunch of guys sit around talking about about the fun topic of film making, video photography, the business op, and change. Right?

CHRIS 88:29 Yup.

CARL 88:30 Yeah. Okay. And continue to send us your feedback and your questions. We love those. We’ll save them for a future Q&A episode. Well gentlemen, I think that’s about everything. Congratulations on finally guessing the mystery movie theme from ”To Catch a Thief’. So anyway, I think I’m going to start looking in the Amazon prime library for another good movie to watch this evening. So go format your SD or CF card, charge up your batteries, clean your lenses, dust off your script, and get out there and make your movie, folks.

CHRIS 89:11 Later.

CARL 89:13 Bye.

by Patrick
March, Mar 16th, 2013

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