In this episode of the Digital Convergence Podcast (#112):
- planet5d.com acquires Cinema5d forums
- Is there a problem with long record times on the Canon 5D Mark III
- Do you have what it takes to put yourself out there as a visual artist?
- Design by committee = beige?
- Do you have conviction in your artistic decisions?
- The perils of people watching over your shoulder as you edit
- Chris Fenwick does a FCP X demo at SFCutters
- Listener feedback
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CARL00:00 This is The Digital Convergence Podcast, episode number 112. [music] We’d like to welcome you to another edition of The Digital Convergence Podcast, your talk show about photography, video, and post-production. This is episode number 112, “The Road Less Traveled.”
MITCH 01:41 Hurray!
CARL 01:42 Now, the digital convergence team is myself, Carl Olson, Digital Film TV. Also, Mr. Chris Fenwick, of Slice Editorial and ChrisFenwick.com, yay!
MITCH 01:51 Yay!
CARL 01:55 And Planet Mitch of planet5d, who’s universe has just gotten bigger, doubled in size.
MITCH 01:59 Hurray! [laughter]
CARL 02:03 So, gentlemen. What film or TV-show is today’s mystery theme from?
MITCH 02:09 Mystery Science 3000.
CHRIS 02:11 I’m going to guess the theme from Route 66.
CARL 02:15 You are the winner, and you get to remain on the show. I told Chris he would be fired if he didn’t guess this one. [laughter] So, who wrote the song?
CHRIS 02:26 Oh boy, that’s…
MITCH 02:27 Henry Mancini.
CHRIS 02:28 Yeah, probably something like that.
CARL 02:30 You think so?
CHRIS 02:32 Those guys were big back then.
CARL 02:34 How about Frank Sinatra, Ella Fitzgerald, Nat King Cole, who do they have in common? Dean Martin…
CHRIS 02:43 I didn’t know I had to…
CARL 02:45 You didn’t have to, but this is a bonus,
CHRIS 02:49 The whole discography.
CARL 02:50 Nelson Riddle wrote the song.
CHRIS 02:53 Nelson Riddle and his orchestra.
CARL 02:55 Yeah, of course.
MITCH 02:56 I should have known that one.
CARL 02:58 Route 66 is just one of those shows that…
CHRIS 03:02 Not to be confused with Nelson Riley, right?
CARL 03:05 Is it “Root” 66 or Route 66?
CHRIS 03:08 If you drive the road, it’s root.
CARL 03:11 Yeah, okay.
CHRIS 03:12 If you’ve never been on the road, you say route.
MITCH 03:16 I think I actually say route.
CHRIS 03:24 Basically, every place that I stop, they say root, root 66.
CARL 03:28 Which one were you? Were you Todd or Buzz? You did Route 66, right? Excuse me, “Root” 66.
CHRIS 03:39 I drove Route 66 and I’ve never seen this show, so I couldn’t tell you who I was.
MITCH 03:43 I drive it a couple of times a week.
CARL 03:46 Oh, that’s right, it goes through St. Louis?
MITCH 03:48 Yes, about a mile south of me.
CHRIS 03:50 What do they say around your neighborhood?
MITCH 03:55 Manchester road. [laughter]
CHRIS 04:00 Do you drive over there for the custard?
MITCH 04:03 We periodically go see Ted Drewes, yeah.
CHRIS 04:07 Yeah, the custard’s right on Route 66, correct? Or is it nearby?
MITCH 4:12 It’s nearby, it’s not right on.
CHRIS 04:15 It’s one of the approved stops on the tour guide when you drive it.
CARL 04:20 What car did you drive when you did Route 66, Chris?
CHRIS 04:23 I drove in a Dodge 300.
CARL 04:28 Wow. Times have changed, because Buzz and Todd were in a Corvette, right?
CHRIS 04:36 Well, yeah. That would be a much more fun car. There are people that do that, they rent Convertibles. There’s no way in the world I’m gonna drive thirty-five hundred miles in a Convertible, it’s just ridiculous.
CARL 04:40 I always did wonder where their luggage was.
CHRIS 04:54 [chuckles] It’s a small trunk. My goal was to not drive an import car, so as not to offend the heartland of America. But that being said —
MITCH 05:11 [chuckles] Mr. Political.
CHRIS 05:16 — the Chrysler 300 looked like a spaceship on that road, by comparison to a lot of the places that we went. We’d pull into town, and people would expect you to have antennas out of your head when you got out of the car.
CARL 05:28 I’ve never driven the entire Route 66. I have been on portions of it, or I’ve seen the remnants of it.
CHRIS 05:38 Most people drive by it. You can look out and see patches of concrete on the shoulder. In Missouri, where Mitch lives, a lot of it is the frontage road. It toggles back and forth between the north side and south side of highway 40, is it?
CHRIS 05:58 44, and so it’s frontage road, but it’s a lot more than that. The history of the road is really fascinating. What is it, this week in Road Rage? You can drive various alignments of it, they call it. In the guide books it will say, “If you want to take the 1923 alignment, you drive down this road, through this parking lot and across this park. Then, when you get to the other side of the park, hang a left and go underneath the overpass. Or, if you would like to drive the 1936 alignment, you’ll have to…” blah, blah, blah. It’s very complicated, and if you want to drive the oldest alignment, it’s really challenging. I mean there’s one point, I can’t remember where we were, but it’s drive down here, make a left on this road, go one point five miles, turn on the dirt road, drive between the cornfields for ten miles. It’s literally wow. And that would be driving the earliest alignment, but it’s a fascinating drive. And if you do it, you absolutely have to do it Chicago, headed west. You don’t go the other way.
MITCH 07:16 Yeah, right.
CARL 07:17 So some roads change, some roads stay the same.
CHRIS 07:22 And some roads are the roads less traveled.
CARL 07:25 Ah, Robert Frost. “Two roads diverged in a yellow wood.”
MITCH 07:30 When you have your own planet. [laughter]
CARL 07:36 Oh, well. So your world has certainly converged, hasn’t it?
MITCH 07:43 Yes. It’s exploded in size and I’m ecstatic. [music]
CARL 07:54 Why are you ecstatic?
MITCH 07:56 We talked about this last week, didn’t we?
CARL 07:58 Of course.
MITCH 08:00 Yes. Well, let’s talk about it every week. [laughter]
CARL 08:03 But last week it was just a glimmer. It was a plan, but plans can be laid to waste. [laughter]
MITCH 08:10 This one certainly was.
CARL 08:11 Things can go horribly wrong. This is why God has a purpose, but man has a plan, because plans fail. [laughter]
MITCH 08:24 I’ve never heard that one. That’s good. So now, as of yesterday morning at about 9:00, the Cinema5D forums are now included as a free portion of planet5D.com.
CARL 08:40 Excellent, excellent.
MITCH 08:41 We had 36 registrations yesterday, 17 so far today, on top of the 28, 700 people already registered, so things are growing like wildfire. I’m a little tired, if you can’t tell. We’ve been having trouble–
CARL 08:59 Well, you’ve been working on this quite a bit.
MITCH 09:00 Yeah, and we had plenty of problems. I had to be up at 2:00AM in the morning, and all that kind of stuff. So I’m a little foggy this morning. Anyway, so they have rebranded Cinema5D. If you happen to have an old link that is like Cinema5D forum thread, those things all still work. But if you go to cinema5d.com, it doesn’t just redirect you to the forums, like you would have hoped, which was a whole debate in terms of contracts. Anyway, there is a link on the top of the page on cinema5d.com that says, “Where are the Forums?” You can click on that and get over to me.
CARL 09:43 Very good.
CHRIS 09:44 Got you.
MITCH 09:46 Long-winded explanation.
CARL 09:50 Good. What’s happening in video and photography?
MITCH 09:54 Actually, one of the strange things that I have to admit, is that I don’t know everything. And, where’s your earth-shattering sound? I should have cued you in on that one [chuckles]. Yes, I know, it’s true: I don’t know everything. This has actually been happening to people for a while. [sound effect] That doesn’t do it.
CARL 10:16 That’s all I got.
MITCH 10:17 Good try. It turns out that some people are having trouble with their 5D Mark III and I didn’t say, two, I said three, freezing right in the middle of recording a video. And apparently, it’s been going on — I’ve seen some reports as far back as August of last year, which somehow I missed. Okay, that’s where I’m saying I don’t know everything. It’s not, apparently, very widespread, but if you’re recording a wedding ceremony, for example, and suddenly the camera freezes and you lose 12 minutes of video or whatever you’ve been recording, that could be a problem.
CARL 10:56 So, you’re saying it freezes; it totally locks up and–
MITCH 11:00 Correct. The only way to fix it is to pull the battery. Yeah, and you pull the battery, then it can’t finish writing the file, and therefore that file is corrupted. Now, if you’ve done 24 minutes, the first 12 minutes is still there, but the last 12-minute file won’t be recorded. Now, I’ve posted the blog on planet5D this morning, a petition to Canon that has recently been inaugurated, to try to get them to recognize this problem. One particular gentleman happens to be able to recreate this problem after 15 to 30 seconds, so it’s not just long, long, super-long clips. This guy’s got a camera that freezes pretty much on demand. I have not personally seen it, it hasn’t happened to me, but there are people who are reporting it and signing the petition.
CHRIS 12:00 Yeah, we record with a 5D III all the time: we do sit-down interviews, they don’t last an hour, but they will last 20 or 30 minutes. And we do span the clips, and stuff, and I don’t believe I’ve heard anybody complaining about ours.
MITCH 12:16 Have you ever noticed, Chris, any dropped frames in between those two clips, if it spans?
CHRIS 12:25 Yeah, I think there’s a couple of frames missing.
MITCH 12:30 I’ve seen some people report that. My first tests, I could not see any drop frames, but I know some people report that there are.
CARL 12:38 I’m confused. So how does this manifest itself?
MITCH 12:42 So on the 5D Mark III and the 1DC and the newer cameras, you can record up to 30 minutes– 29 minutes and 59 seconds. But it still records in four gigabyte files. So if you go, relatively speaking, over 12 minutes, it’s going to span into a new clip.
CARL 13:06 Right, because the compact flash cards are basically FAT32 files.
MITCH 13:11 Correct.
CARL 13:13 So there’s that upper limit.
MITCH 13:15 What happens is they stop writing one file and start writing another. And as Chris says, some people see a couple of dropped frames in between those two clips, or three clips depending upon how long your thing goes. You have to at least be aware that there is a possibility that there may be a couple of frames drop there.
CARL 13:40 Maybe this is a case of choosing the right tool for long format recording [chuckles]. Clever idea, right?
MITCH 13:49 Yes. Well, and that’s what some people have said, too, about this freezing problem, is maybe you shouldn’t be using a DSLR to record long clips of weddings, for example. I’m assuming what’s happening in those situations is, that they’re just putting the camera on a tripod and letting it run for the whole ceremony. I had a story this past week about “The Camera Mater,” which I think is a hilarious name.
CHRIS 14:22 That’s cool.
CARL 14:23 What going on with the Camera Mater?
MITCH 14:25 It’s a little device that you attach to your camera that basically creates a little Wi-Fi zone so that you can control your camera via your iPhone, or iPad, or whatever, so you can do it wirelessly. Now, there are devices that you can do it wired, but this one was going to do it wireless, and big tussle between a group of people – and I’m still a little confused after reading [chuckles] comments and e-mails. But anyway, basically, the developer of the hardware and the developer of the software had a fight. And the developer of the software said, “I’m going to pull this from the app store.” So, now the developer of the hardware has a problem, where they can’t sell the thing, because they don’t have an app in the app store to go with it. So, I just found it fascinating, and it’s kind of a warning for people, that if you’re going to be developing some software or something that works with an iPad, you’d better get your ducks in a row.
CARL 15:37 This is a mistake that a number of software companies make. There’s nothing wrong using freelancers, coders – I think it’s a great way to do it – but you better establish who owns that IP, and you keep control of the IP. One of the things with the app store is, if you let your freelancers own the account, you’re messed up really bad. A while back, I had an iPhone app developed – I did outsource it – but I did all the provisioning on the iTunes store. They had no access to the store. They don’t have any log in information, nothing. They have no access. All they could give me is was the code. Then I compiled it and provisioned it for the store. That’s the only way you can protect yourself on that stuff.
MITCH 16:28 That’s right, yeah.
CARL 16:29 But I don’t know the ends and outs of this particular thing, so I don’t know what happened. I don’t know who owns what and who is contracted to do what. It looks really cool.
MITCH 16:39 It’s the story of buyer beware there, in terms of software.
CARL 16:45 I hope they sort it out, sounds like a cool idea, though. I always wanted to have a little bit more remote control wireless tethered or whatever, without having to set up an ad-hoc Wi-Fi network. It would be cool if I could do that.
MITCH 17:00 There is a review of a working unit on planet5D if you want to go watch that I will send you the link.
CARL 17:06 Very good, I will include it in the show notes. [sound effect]. I love talking about CrumplePop, film and broadcast effects for Final Cut Pro. Check it out on Crumplepop.com.
CHRIS 17:24 I’ve been using CrumplePop all week.
CARL 17:26 What have you been using in their vast toolkit?
CHRIS 17:34 I can’t remember what it’s called. [laughter]
CARL 17:36 It’s okay, what is it’s–
MITCH 17:38 It’s spreading! It’s spreading!
CARL 17:39 What does it do?
CHRIS 17:42 Let me double check something, and then I’ll tell you.
MITCH 17:48 I’ve been using the split screen plug-in myself.
CHRIS 17:51 Yes, that’s the one, that’s the word I was thinking for, the split screen. Yes, I’ve been using it.
CARL 17:56 Oh, that’s cool. So, that’s pretty easy to set up multiple images in one–
CHRIS 18:02 Yeah, it is. Let me tell you, I always have these little provisional about why I like things. So, being an Apple developer–
MITCH 18:11 That’s why I like Chris, you always have those, “why I like you” things.
CHRIS 18:14 …sometimes, can be difficult, because Apple can be very secretive about what they’re doing. Quite often, they don’t tell people about what’s going to change, and sometimes they’ll pull the digital rug right out from underneath a developer. I think this happened with the split screen thing, and when this happened to me, Mitch, your words started ringing around in my head. Because, I think you had made a comment. You had emailed me or maybe you mentioned it on the show once, where you said the split screen doesn’t roll video or something. Did I hear that from you?
MITCH 18:56 I had a problem with when they first released Final Cut 10.07 or 6?
CHRIS 19:05 Right. So this is exactly what I am talking about. So Apple changed something fundamentally in the app, and CrumplePop found that their split screen software was not working as well as it was the day before. And apparently, very quickly they found the workaround, and posted an additional tutorial of how to fix it. And I envisioned those guys going crazy in cubicles over there, trying to figure out how to make it work a little bit easier.
So there was a little bit of a hoop, a little tiny hoop to jump through, but in no time I was able to find the solution to make it work. Basically what happens is, you put clips in it, and the clips don’t roll, it’s a bunch of freeze frames. So what you have to do is you have to nest those clips, and then put them into the split screen, and then it works wonderfully.
CARL 19:58 Cool. One of the things we’d like to just remind everyone is that you can get 20% off your orders from CrumplePop. Use the coupon code DCP20.
MITCH 20:12 That’s awesome!
CARL 20:14 Yeah. So, thanks. Thanks to everyone at CrumplePop.
CHRIS 20:16 What if I put in DCP100?
CARL 20:19 I don’t know what would happen. You would probably be banned and put on the TSA’s no-fly watch-lists.
CHRIS 20:28 Oh, you’re going to go back there. Okay, fine. Brilliant, bring it, Olsen.
CARL 20:34 Today’s kind of a funky day. And I apologize to our listeners, because I was sick for about three weeks, and I’m so far behind, I’ll never die, you know that one. My wife has this Calvin and Hobbes cartoon, and Calvin is just sitting there just snarling and growling and says, “Oh, God put me on this earth to do so many things, and I’m so far behind, I’ll never die.” And that’s the way I feel. I don’t feel like I’ve treated my listeners fairly this week, because I’ve been really struggling to try to come up with some things that I wanted to share with everyone on the show. But one of the things I thought about is more of a mindset type thing, because that’s what I was struggling with. You know, I hate negativity but I can sink into it very quickly, as this show has already shown. But I do hate it. I just absolutely hate it because it just takes– it just saps the energy out of you. And then–
MITCH 21:36 I can vouch for that.
CARL 21:37 One of the things I was thinking about, you did this blog post putting yourself out there. Can you do it? Wow. That’s a good question, because how many of us shoot video or edit video but you don’t see yourself there. I mean, do you put yourself on camera? Can you do it? And yet– then you’ll have these people come out of the woodwork and they’ll criticize everything about you. You’re fat, you’re skinny, you’re short, you’re tall, you’re redheaded, you’re blonde, you can’t talk right, you make silly jokes, you’re stupid or you’re–
MITCH 22:15 You put lame transitions in.
CARL 22:20 You put lame– I mean, okay. These guys– people that do that, are they willing to put themselves out there? And I think you asked a really good question. You know, putting yourself out there. How many of us as videographers, editors, whatever, in this visual arts industry will put ourselves out front and center? I mean, that’s what I do with this podcast. I’m terrified. I mean, this is 112 episodes and I have to admit, when I first started this, I was terrified and I still am. I still get nervous doing this. But I’m out there. Who else is doing this?
CHRIS 22:56 You know, I think this topic can be boiled down, in my opinion, to one word and that’s “conviction.” It doesn’t have to be, you know, do you record your voice and share it with, you know, thousands of people every week. It doesn’t have to be, do you put your mug on camera and put it on your website and share it with people every week. This also boils down to, as an artist– and I’ll use that term, but as an artist, we make decisions all the time about what we are going to share. My friend Ted Wagner, who I’ve mentioned in the past, he takes his doodles off of his desk at the end of the day, photographs them and shares them on a website. That’s one of the things where he shares himself, and I tell you, the guy’s a world-class doodler. It’s amazing.[laughter]
A colorist, when he sits in a suite, if you’re doing anything other than correcting something – Oops, that’s too blue – but if you’re putting any sort of a design or a look onto something, you have to make a decision. You have to be firm in your convictions and say, Nope, this is the way I like it to look, and you have to put that out there. I had an instance just the other day with somebody, and I was doing some stuff in aperture, and they’re over my shoulder going, “Oh, my god, that’s awful! Are you kidding me? Seriously, you’re going to do that?” And I’ll tell you what I did: I stood up, I walked to the door, I opened it, and I said, “You can leave now.”
MITCH 24:36 Thank you [chuckles]. Perfect.
CARL 24:38 I don’t want your input. You are more than welcome to leave. Because, ultimately, that person didn’t have the final say, and although I don’t necessarily have the final say, there’s really only one person above me that’s going to say, “No, don’t do that.” I’m not interested in their input at this point, and I could have gone, “Mm, okay.” I don’t want to design by committee. When you design by committee, everything ends up being beige, because beige has never offended anybody.
MITCH 25:09 [chuckles] That’s so true.
CARL 25:11 That’s why PCs were beige up until the iMacs – you know, the blue iMac. And so, sometimes you have to have the conviction to open the door, escort people out, and say, “You know what, I don’t care about your input,” because everybody who did something different had to do it first. If you look at Picasso, or Monet, or different artists that broke the norm and set a trend, or Pollack, or something like that, you’re like, “This guy’s not painting, he’s just splattering paint on the floor.” Okay, but now we’re talking about him in 2013, so he was doing something more than just splattering paint on the floor. I don’t really know, I’m not an art expert, but I do know who Jackson Pollack is.
CARL 26:04 Well, you’re talking about — I think there’s a book called, The Judgment of Paris, which talks about the Impressionists. They just totally upended the whole worldview of what art is. You know, is it a literal replication of what is seen, or is it an interpretation of light, and emotion, and that sort of thing? It was not well received, initially, at least not by the experts. Here’s the thing: it was the experts, the pros, that fought against Impressionism, but it was the people, the audience, that love the Impressionists.
MITCH 26:45 Yeah, that’s actually so true about this whole story that started this post of mine.
CHRIS 26:50 I don’t know the story that we’re talking about.
MITCH 26:53 Should we tell that story briefly?
CARL 26:54 Yes, give him the back story, Herb.
MITCH 26:56 All right. So, last Thursday – it was Thursday evening – it was announced that planet5D was going to be acquiring the Cinema5D forums, and it was announced over on Cinema5D, and then, of course, I posted it over on planet5D. The Cinema 5D forums had a minor eruption of people going, “No, no, you can’t do that do us. This is going to suck, Mitch sucks, planet5D sucks, we don’t want to go over there, we like Sebastian who runs Cinema5D,” and that kind of negativity. And of course, I posted a video along with my announcement on the planet5D side, which shows… quite frankly it was quirky and I thought it was showing some of my emotion, my personal excitement over the move of the forums.
CARL 27:55 You were just being yourself.
MITCH Yeah. And, oh, people just railed on me about, “Oh, that’s so unprofessional, you should have read from a script,” and “That’s tacky and disgusting,” were words that were thrown out, and I said, “Look guys, that’s just me. I never said I was a professional, I never claimed to be a video pro-shooting video. If you’ve watched any of my videos, you would’ve known. I’m learning just like everybody else is learning, and I’m putting myself out there as opposed to just doing it behind the scenes.” So that’s what the stem of that article was, that I also posted on planet5D this Wednesday. It’s just a– It was an emotional ramp for me, but I also want people to know that you need to put yourself out there somehow. And not everybody is going to be on-screen and doing what I’m doing, right or wrong. And I’ve gotten quite a few compliments from that. But going back to what Carl just said about the experts. So the new forums went live yesterday morning. It’s been a day. [laughter] God, my brain’s not working. And so far, I’ve had one person say – and this just popped in not too long ago, “I miss the gray of the old cinema5D, but the new form seems robust.” I’ve had no negative out-lash from the people actually using the forum so far. They’re not yelling and screaming like they were over on Cinema5d. And maybe they’re just being polite, and just walking with their feet and not coming back. But I think the vast majority of people are gonna be fine with it. Yes, it’s changed, the colors are different, but the content is still there. That’s what’s important isn’t it?
CHRIS 30:05 I like the art.
MITCH 30:08 Change is difficult, I know that. I knew people were going to complain at the beginning, there will be additional complaints to come, I don’t mind that. What I did mind was the personal attacks, I thought that was way over the top, but that’s also what sort of happens when you put yourself out there, right?
CARL 30:33 So, the question is how do you handle that when that happens, when someone attacks, and these are supposedly our professional peers. [laughter]
MITCH 30:46 Yeah. Well, I think I’d like to believe that I did the right thing, and that was that I didn’t just go well yeah, you’re an idiot, too. I waited a while, like my wife always suggests. Don’t just fly off the handle, take time, breathe, come up with a considered response… and then go with it. And I respectfully answered appropriate questions, I didn’t respond to people who were just being totally negative, because I never do. I will not take myself down to that level. They can say whatever they want to say but, go ahead Chris.
CHRIS 31:30 I think another way of looking at this, there is the reactionary stuff and the way people have reacted to the fact that the blog, excuse me, the forms have moved over to your website. But I do think that there’s another way, another facet to this story that’s interesting. You know you have made a brand around, partially around your personality, and partially around being a source of gobs of data about this industry. I think in a broader picture, I’m always fascinated when I’m in a room of decision. makers because quite frankly a lot of decisions are being made in an edit suite. But when you’re in a room full of decision makers it’s always fascinating to see the amount of forethought that goes into the tiniest bit of detail that go into a piece.
I’ve had people have knock-down arguments sitting behind me, about whether one thing is too casual, or is that too staunch, or is that being too stern, or whatever it is, and a whole edit comes to a screeching halt, while people are sitting behind me, trying to decide whether or not we can use a hand-held shot here, and what is the long-term implications of that is. Oh, no, it’s too casual, I think we need to have a… Oh come on, people, it’s just a nice angle. Can we just drop it in and keep going?
The point being is, a lot of times we make decisions kind of in an ad hoc way, and we look at it, we go, “Well, I like it.” Okay, that’s fine. Now tell me why you like it. Write me a page about why this is the direction you want to go. And sometimes when you think things out, and when you really follow something down to its natural conclusion, you can go, “Yeah, you know what? I haven’t thought about all of those implications.”
It’s just interesting; I’ve seen some really interesting discussions in our edit suites, with producers and clients and stuff. And when you think about the long-term implications of decisions, that are seemingly very casual and off the cuff, it’s fascinating to think about how people are going to perceive things. I’ve also done edits where I have had to take the most natural of speech – I’m thinking of “Um,” and pauses. Sometimes people will say, “So, now I would like to talk about – oh, can you take the word so out?” Well, why? Why?
MITCH 34:44 [chuckles] I say it all the time.
CHRIS 34:46 Yeah, but I’ve had people sit behind me go, “It’s got to go. Figure out how to get it out,” and it’s like, come on, people. You know, he is a human being. He’s not a robot. He’s not, you know– just let the man talk.
MITCH 35:00 Right.
CHRIS 35:01 I mean, can I take the word out? Yes. Are you going to hear the edit? Yeah, you will. Why? Because it’s a diphthong and it’s not a good edit and you should really just let it go. And yet– “Well, no, it’s unprofessional.” Okay.
MITCH 35:16 Well, one of the things you said a minute ago was the “why” part, which is one of the things that I’m really hoping that I can get people to do in the forums. Because, you can come in and you can say “Gosh, Mitch, your video sucked,” and that’s fine, although I don’t care for those words. I would like you to say it a little bit more politely. But I want people to say why it sucked. Nobody can learn from, “Gosh, that video sucked.” You’ve got to have the “why” part of it. And the same thing is true about the positives. I don’t want people just going, “Great movie, Mitch.” I want to know why it’s great.
CARL 35:53 I believe what my mother said. If you don’t have anything good to say about anybody, don’t say anything at all. So here’s the way I think would be the gentlemanly, of course, that’s being sexist in itself, but the friendly way to do this would be you look at a film, and perhaps Mitch you’ll ask me, do you have any suggestions about this movie?. I might say, “Well since you asked, I really appreciate what you’ve done here. I can see you’ve really put your heart and soul in this, and your enthusiasm comes out. But, there’s this one little glitch I notice, and it happens to me too, but you might want to address that one little glitch, and I bet you’ll take this thing to the next level. But, I really think what you’re doing is exciting, because you’re out there doing it.” You see what I just did? That’s constructive.
MITCH 36:55 Absolutely.
CARL 35:56 To go and say, “Oh that video stinks”. Why even bother to say that? I don’t review stuff that I don’t use. If I don’t use it, why should I say anything about it?
MITCH 37:07 Right.
CARL 37:08 Just to say something as terrible is not constructive.
MITCH 37:14 I agree with the statement, if you don’t have anything nice to say, but what you just did in your example was that you did have something negative to say, but you turned it into a learning situation.
CARL 37:31 Exactly.
MITCH 37:33 Being negative to be negative is wrong, and that’s what your mother was trying to get you to do.
CARL 37:37 I see. That’s right.
MITCH 37:38 But if you can turn it into an educational session – and I had a couple of people write me personal notes and say, “Well, Mitch, if you did this or that.” That’ good. I appreciate that kind of constructive criticism. It’s the negative, just lashing out at somebody because you think you’re better than him, or you’re jealous of him, or whatever reason you’re lashing out, that’s wrong, and I wish people wouldn’t do it. In fact, I had a personal apology from somebody – I won’t give his name, even though–
CHRIS 38:09 Was it Bob?
MITCH 38:10 [chuckles] No.
CHRIS 38:11 Was it Tim?
MITCH 38:12 No.
CHRIS 38:13 Was it Fred?
MITCH 38:14 But, he turned around and he said, “Although I know you didn’t like what I said, what I said was honest and truthful, and I’m going to continue saying it, because that’s the right way to do it.” I was like, “Oh, man, you just lost me. I am not responding to you ever, ever again.” That’s a totally wrong way to try to get somebody to change.
CARL 38:39 Yeah, so there’s an attitude that people have, is that, “I’m just going to speak my mind, because that’s the way I am.” Well, there’s a lot of unrestraint out there. You elevate yourself, and you elevate your art by restraint.
MITCH 38:55 Correct. Exactly true.
CHRIS 38:57 Well, there is another side to this. Sometimes we do ask people for input, Hey, can I get your input on this before I put it live? if I see something that I see as problematic, and maybe it’s more than just, “I don’t really like that color,” but if somebody’s asking you for your opinion, you don’t want to just go, ” Oh, you know, boy that’s a webpage.” Give me your opinion.
CARL 39:27 I agree.
CHRIS 39:28 Now, I will say that I have had multiple occasions in my life when somebody has asked my opinion about something, and I’ll say, “Well, really? Okay: this, this, this, and this,” and those people have never spoken to me again.
CARL 39:44 Well, you can be assured that hasn’t happened on this show, because this show is better. It’s not perfect, but it’s better because Chris has been kind enough to tell me what I needed to hear.
CHRIS 39:59 Yeah, absolutely. But you do it in the right forum. Offline, without a client in the room. I mean, go back and listen to some of my old episodes of this podcast– they were horrible.
CHRIS 40:12 Try the ones that I was on–
CARL 40:14 And even the one that he was on– that’s when it started turning around, right? [laughter] Oh, wait, wait. So that’s a good, “wrap it all back to the beginning,” where I did the Route 66. See, Chris talked about Route 66 on the first episode that he was on.
MITCH 40:34 Did he really?
CARL 40:36 Yeah. That’s why I said he was going to be fired if he didn’t recognize that show tune.
MITCH 40:41 See, I’ve never seen that show going back to the– I’ve never seen that show.
CARL 40:46 I think what I want to– just wrap this, close out this topic here about, you know, putting yourself out there. See, all of those– everything that we do– I don’t know. There’s a lot of people out there that are perfectionists. I think the so-called or self-proclaimed pros are sometimes the most opinionated lot there is. I mean, come on.
We’re opinionated too. I mean, that’s what we do. But, you do have to put yourself out there, and sometimes people don’t do anything, perhaps because they’re afraid of what their peers. Because they’re guilty of doing it, they’re guilty of being so critical that they know that the same is going to happen to them if they put their stuff out there. But I tell you what, if I hadn’t started executing, if I hadn’t started the podcast, if I hadn’t started Reach TV, if I hadn’t started shooting video or whatever – you know, if I hadn’t started doing something, I would not be where I am today.
MITCH 41:46 Yep.
CARL 41:47 I would not have not been on the road less traveled, I would’ve just been stuck at the fork.
CHRIS 41:55 In the parking lot.
CARL 41:5 Yeah, just sitting there, twiddling my thumbs. I look back at what has been accomplished in the last year, the last two years. Two years ago, I never dreamed I’d be doing this. Two years ago, I never dreamed I’d be talking to the people that I get to talk to, that I’d have the success with the business that I have.
MITCH 42:18 Yeah, same story, bud.
CARL 42:19 Oh, more than two and a half years, three years.
CHRIS 42:26 Time marches on.
CARL 42:27 Yeah. boy, it does fly, doesn’t it?
MITCH 42:28 The corollary to that is, don’t wait until something is what you think is perfect before you start putting it out there, if you’re going to do it, because then you’ll never get it done, because it’ll never be perfect.
CARL 42:41 That’s kind of like– my son sent me this story so it’s a little silly but hey, I liked it. So, he said there was once this young man who in his youth professed a desire to become a great writer. When asked to define great, he said, “I want to write stuff that the whole world will read. Stuff that people will react to on a truly emotional level.” And I think Planet Mitch can identify with that. “Stuff that will make them scream, cry, wail, howl in pain, desperation and anger.” Well, he now works for Microsoft writing error messages. [laughter]
MITCH 43:19 That’s good.
CARL 44:14 Here’s the thing. A lot of people get really been out of shape over business. The other day I heard somebody that’s in the business, just ranting about they hated business and marketing. Well, guess what, that’s the only way that you’re going to make money.
MITCH 44:28 That’s right.
CARL 44:30 You got to understand business, and you got to do marketing. Otherwise, you’re not going to get any work, if you’re in business for yourself. If you’re working for somebody, you’re a corporate stooge somewhere, I guess that’s different. A little different, but if you want to make it in your own business, you’re going to have to learn these things. So, if you spent $24 a month, and it raised your profit, your revenues by 20%. I’m not saying it will, because it depends on how you apply it, but let’s say it did. I mean, would it have paid for itself? Certainly.
Education is a huge part of my budget. I spend probably more on education than I do on hardware. I don’t know about you guys. Do you do that?
MITCH 45:19 No.
CARL 45:20 What do you do for education?
MITCH 45:21 Sadly, not enough.
CARL 45:23 Well we need to fix that. [chuckle] Well, you’re educating yourself, because you’re curating, so you’re going through a lot of stuff. Anyway, check out Kre8insight.com- $24 a month or $197 a year, it’s a little less, but it’s money that will help you make money, if you apply what’s said there. So anyway, check them out. By the way, they’ve got a great new podcast series that I think’s pretty cool. It’s called The Expert Interrogations. I love that name. I wish I’d thought of it.
MITCH 45:58 I’m going to be on that.
CARL 45:59 You’re going to be on Expert Interrogations?
MITCH 46:02 I am. I don’t know when yet. We haven’t set a date, but those guys are doing some great stuff. I really enjoy it.
CARL 46:10 They had James Wedmore the other day. He is the YouTube traffic guru. This guy’s really done a great job teaching people how to do YouTube.
MITCH 46:25 I can go back and listen to those, right?
CARL 46:27 Yeah. They are all archived, so you can go back and listen to the replay. Of course, it does remind me. I know during that show I was watching it and I was participating in the chat room. There was a guy that came in there and I could tell he is this middle-aged guy because everything– just goes in there and he’s talking about for 30 years– 32 years he did this and that, and then, “This is stupid.” He got booted from the show because that guy was just full of negativity.
MITCH 46:56 Good for them.
CARL 46:57 Yeah. But don’t become an angry white man that’s in his 50s. It just is not a pretty picture. It’s not pretty being in your 50s anyway, so don’t– Just don’t scowl, man. Just change. Everybody wants the world to stay the same, and it doesn’t. It changes, and it’s good and it’s fun if you allow it to be that way. Oh well, I went off on a rant there.
MITCH 47:24 Really?
CARL 47:25 Did I do that?
CHRIS 47:26 Don’t be so angry, Carl.
CARL 47:27 I’m an angry young man, yeah. [music] Speaking of negativity…
MITCH 47:39 Uh, oh. Somebody write–
CARL 47:40 Yeah. You know that– I think there’s this famous author by the name of John Grisham?
MITCH 47:45 Yeah. Yeah.
CARL 47:46 Yeah. He got upset at our podcast last–
MITCH 47:50 Did he really? He wrote to us?
CARL 47:51 Yeah. “Okay, guys. I’ve had it with the constant confusion between me, John Grisham, multi-gazillionaire award-winning author and John Grimpson, national-based video hack. Tired of it, I tell you.” Signed, John Grisham. [laughter]
MITCH 48:06 Nice of him to write.
CARL 48:08 Yeah, but John Grimpson was nice enough to write in. He says “Hey, guys. Nice to hear the shout-out on your show. If you ever hit a slow patch for guests, keep me in mind. Love it.” Hey, we might just take you up on that. Grimpson Video on vimeo.com. Oh my goodness. Now, I want– Mitch, take a listen to– hey, Chris, you listen to it too, but use a little restraint, okay?
CHRIS 48:37 I’m listening.
CARL 48:38 Just use a little restraint as you hear this, okay?
CHRIS 48:39 Whatever.
ERIC 48:41 Alright. Hey, guys. This is Eric with a Cam calling to report that I went to the SF Cutters meeting last night and they had some really good demonstrations, but the best of all was Chris Fenwick’s showing of the Final Cut Pro 10. He did an amazing job. He captivated the whole audience so props to you Chris and Carl, you should be very proud of him. Thanks, bye.”
MITCH 49:07 Oh, that’s so sweet.
CARL 49:08 Oh, man. We are proud of Chris. Chris, tell us about this.
CHRIS 49:12 Actually, it went really well. You know, I will admit– first of all, Eric, you should have come up and said hi. You know, we’ve talked– we’ve talked about you. I’ve said how much I dig your screen name and everything. You should have come up and said hi. I would have liked to have met you. It went really well. I will admit I was nervous going into it because I was doing–
MITCH 49:30 What?!
CARL 49:31 I was doing something that you should never do when you’re doing a demo. And I was kind of doing a demo. I wasn’t a paid, you know, Apple representative, but my goal in doing the talk was to basically just have people get off their high horse and give Final Cut 10 another looksee. So, you know, typically when you do a Software demo, you will kind of like a cooking show, you always have as we say, one in the oven. [laughter]
I’m going to demo how to do something, but I’ve already done it, and I have another file standing by. So, if something were to happen, I could say well, I don’t know what happened, but here, let me show you what it should’ve looked like. Back in the days when Mr. Jobs would be onstage, he always had people back stage with an A, B switch, and they could flick over his computer to a whole other computer that was not crashing. So, if he ever had problems.
But I think one of the best software demos I’ve ever seen was when Steve Jobs demonstrated iMovie for the first time. Where he took a DV camera, stood up, shot the audience, went back to his computer, plugged it in, captured footage that he had just shot, and dropped it into a timeline, because that’s really putting your foot out there. And back in those days, that was actually kind of hard to do. But what I did is I actually cut a thirty second promotion for SF Cutters and I did it with footage that I had never looked at before.
Because our friend, Eric Goodfield, who was on the show a few months ago, he actually came with me and shot a bunch of B-roll for me, and as I sat down to do my demo, he handed me the card. I’m like, “Okay, I’ve never looked at this footage. Let’s go.” And I did not have one in the oven, but the thing went really well. I had good feedback that night. The next morning, I got an e-mail from a friend of mine who actually works at Apple, and he said, “Hey, I hear you did a really good job last night. I sent one of my spies to watch you.” Thank you for not telling me ahead of time.[laughter]
As a result from that – and this is a “I’m going to offer this up to our listeners” – as a result from that, and I think I can say this because he didn’t tell me I couldn’t say this. In a few weeks, when I have some spare time, I’m actually going to go down to Apple, and they have asked me to come in and talk with the Final Cut Ten team.
MITCH 52:19 Oh, wow.
CARL 52:20 That is awesome, to give some input on what I think– you know, how I think things are going and I want to offer this out to the DCP listeners. Send me your comments and feedback. I think what I might do– I don’t know how to do that. I think what I might do is I might put a post on my blog, chrisfenwick.com, saying– I’m not going to specifically say Apple has invited me. I’m not going to do that because I don’t want to– more than just our listeners to really know all the details. But it will be– you will know which post it is and I want to open it up to people to send comments in the comment field and say, you know, “I would like to hear– I would like to see something like this in subsequent upcoming versions”. And again, I might–be going completely off the rails by talking about this publicly. Yeah, you’re messed up now. But hey, here’s mine. It’s a very tiny thing, okay? It’s very tiny, you know, and it’s inspired by your sparse disc tutorial.
CHRIS 53:31 Oh, I have something to say about that too. Go ahead.
CARL 53:36 Yeah. Well, see, I would– I think Final Cut Pro 10 could really use a tweak on their media management, make it a little bit easier for us so that we don’t have to do the sparse disc, or maybe even encapsulate the projects as we think of projects – not the way they think of projects, but the way we think of projects, which is taking all our assets and our edited media together. I think that would broaden acceptance among a lot more people than it currently does.
CHRIS 54:04 Yeah. I will say, in the conversations that I can’t say I’ve had, that a whole lot of thought has gone into the way media management is done, and I don’t want to — I will say that Apple does not do anything without a ton of forethought, and I think that the – I’m being very careful to not say the wrong thing – I think that the way things are done is the best for most people. I’m just going to say it like that. That does mean– you know, I have spoken about the concept of the lunatic fringe on many occasions on our show here, and sometimes we find ourselves on the lunatic fringe. And if you haven’t heard me talk about this, it’s the concept of the bell curve.
CARL 55:12 Yeah.
CHRIS 55:13 You know, the– 80% of the people are in the middle and you have 10% at the top and 10% at the bottom. And I think professionals are easily in that top 10%. And you have to remember that Apple is a very widely used company. A lot of people use Apple stuff and they don’t design purely for the top 10%, professional.
CARL 55:37 And I understand that. I get that.
CHRIS 55:38 Yeah.
CHRIS 55:39 But I will say– what I’d like to say about the sparse disc is in conversations that I have had, that Apple I think, is very close to officially blessing or sanctioning the workflow of using the sparse disc. What you do have to know about using sparse disc is that it can be very RAM intensive, so if you don’t have a lot of RAM in your machine, you might experience a performance hit.
MITCH 56:14 That’s a good point.
CHRIS 56:15 But I will also say that the performance of Final Cut 10 is really spectacular, and so you can actually take a little performance hit, and still have a well-functioning machine. Friends of mine have, and I won’t say who it was, because it would get him in trouble, but one friend of mine described the Final Cut 10 user interface as very slippery. That’s a good comment, when you shuttle through it, it just whips through it, it whips through your media. So he calls that, and he goes, “Oh that’s really slippery”. I thought that was a great term. But anyway, the talk went really well, and a lot of people came up to me and said, “Mm, yeah boy, I had totally written it off, I’m going to give it a try.” I’ve heard multiple comments of people saying, “Yeah, I’m going to give it another try.”
CARL 57:12 I just saw a tweet by Rodney Charters this morning, he says he’s cutting a project on Final Cut Pro 10.
CHRIS 57:19 Is he really?
CARL 57:20 Yeah.
CARL 57:21 Rodney Charters, Dallas. The Dallas Real Good guy. We may have to reach out to him and ask him about his experience with that.
MITCH 57:31 Is he still on Dallas? I thought he left.
CARL 57:32 Oh, I don’t know, I assumed he was…
CHRIS 57:36 Yeah, so I hope I haven’t said too much, but I will say that Apple is indeed reaching out. I think a lot of times, and I have been very accusatory of them being in a golden palace with high walls, where they never listen to the commoners outside the gates. But they do. They reach out selectively, and I think they seemed interested in hearing what I had to say. And as soon as I get a couple of days off, I’m going to go down and meet with the product manager and some of the other people on the Final Cut Pro 10 team. So I’m looking forward to that. Can I give a cool little tip?
CARL 58:16 Sure.
CHRIS 58:17 It’s kind of visual, but it’s a…
CARL 58:21 I tell you what. Before you do I need to do a sound effect.
MITCH 58:30 I sent the camera back, by the way, so can’t do the sound effect.
CHRIS 58:37 I thought we recorded it.
CARL 58:38 We recorded it. I just didn’t have time to set up the sound. We’re falling apart professionally here
CARL 59:53 Well, it’s your tip for Final Cut Pro 10.
CHRIS 59:54 Oh. So it’s kind of a neat look. Sometimes when you’re shooting B roll, you want something to just have a little bit more of a– you know, kind of a smooth look to it. A little bit– you know, you don’t want to go, like, 50% slo-mo but you just want to sort of take the edge off it, you know?
Somebody’s walking down a path and there’s just a little bit of slo-mo. Even with cameras that don’t shoot, you know, 220 frames per second or 120 frames per second, you can actually– on the 5D3’s, you know, you can record at 30p and you take that into your 20– 23-98 timeline. You drop that clip in. Now, when you do, it’s going to play back very poorly. But under the right-hand side, there’s a little icon in the center bar that looks like a little crescent with an arrow, I think. I don’t have the user interface launched. Maybe I should launch it. And–
CARL 01:00:57 Yeah but I don’t want you to crush my– you know, crash my whole system here.
CHRIS 01:00:58 Yeah, but what does it look like? It’s a little crescent with say. Looks like a little knob but anyway, when you pull that thing down, there’s a selection– I think it’s the re-time icon, actually. There’s a menu selection called ‘conform footage’, I think?
MITCH 01:01:19 Yes.
CHRIS 01:01:20 Okay. Click on– so you click on your 30 frame per second clip, hit ‘conform footage’ or ‘conform clip’ and what it will do is it will take those 30 frames and stretch it out 80%, and it’ll actually play all of those 30 frames per second but only one per 29 nine– so basically it stretches it out. So you take your 30 frames, you stretch it out to 24 frames and it’s basically like putting an 80% slow Motion or something.
And it just has a really smooth, kind of slick, sexy look to it. And it’s not like a whole bunch of slo-mo and you don’t have to do a bunch of frame interpolating and frame blending, so it doesn’t slow things down. And it’s just a very cool feature that I figured out the other day. I found a post about it and it’s very cool.
CARL 01:02:13 I think I detect a new tutorial coming up soon. [chuckle]
CHRIS 01:02:17 Maybe. Yeah, maybe I should do that while I’m editing.
CARL 01:02:17 Well, guys, I’m going to have to start wrapping this up, because I’m going to be doing a good bit of traveling this afternoon. I’ve got to go to Noonan, Georgia, and then I’m going to go all the way back up to Atlanta, try to make it to the Atlanta Cutters. I don’t know if I’m going to make it. I can’t believe I’m saying that – I’m going to try. I’m going to try very hard to make it to Atlanta Cutters tonight, but I’ll probably be late.
CHRIS 01:02:45 I have one little pick of the week type thing that I really want to encourage people to take a look at. There is an app on the iPhone called “Vine”.
CARL 01:0300 I knew you were going to say that.
CHRIS 01:03:04 It is– we were talking about putting yourself out there, and don’t wait until everything is perfect, and sometimes you’ve just got to publish, and Vine is a mini filmmaker’s tool. Basically, what you do is you launch the app. I will say you might want to be careful because there is some inappropriate stuff on Vine, if you look hard enough for it, I haven’t seen it yet. But you launch the app, you launch the camera portion of it; it basically takes sort of a little Instagram square aspect ratio video. And what you get is you get six seconds to record video. However, it only records when your finger is on the screen. So you can shoot one six-second shot or you could do six one-second shots.
But basically, it’ll– if you work at it, you get to tell a whole story that’s going to playback eventually in a little looping gif, I think it is. And so you do your wide-shot. You come in for a two-shot. You do the close-up. You do the reaction shot. And boom, your movie’s over. And it just takes the audio– it’s coming as you’re shooting, so you don’t have continuous audio under your clips. And some of the pieces are…you know Vine, you see some weird stuff. But I was at this event here in Santa Barbara this weekend or this week, and they were having a big Mexican siesta fiesta party of a themed party last night. And I took a whole bunch of these little vines at it and had a whole lot of fun.
So check it out, it’s a fun way, you have to shoot it, and essentially you’re cutting it while you’re shooting it, because you don’t get to edit it at all, and then the next thing you do is, you click Send or Done. I can’t remember what it’s called, and all of the sudden your little six-second movie is published for the world. So if you’re having a hard time actually completing [laughter] a project, I’d say scale down and try a vine project for…
MITCH 01:05:13 Six seconds, yeah.
CARL 01:05:15 Little six second movies.
MITCH 01:05:16 I can do that.
CARL 01:05:18 I’ll have to give it a try. I haven’t tried it yet. Mitch, did you have a pick?
MITCH 01:05:21 Actually I… Something just came into my email during the show, which is rather shocking, isn’t it?
CARL 01:05:25 Yeah.
CHRIS 01:05:27 Breaking news.
MITCH 01:05:28 It’s a brand new little product and it’s called the XD5. It’s fascinating to me, because I’ve never seen something like this. But you know the shell that’s around the GoPro? You know the clear thing? Somebody’s invented that same thing for the iPhone. And, it’s waterproof, drop-proof, you still have access to the screen, so it’s got touch-screen capabilities. And it looks really cool.
One hundred and twenty-nine dollars. [chuckle] for a case, but it looks pretty impressive. If you want to use the iPhone to make videos and whatever you would use the GoPro for, here is a chance to use the iPhone for.
CHRIS 01:06:25 Is it waterproof?
MITCH 01:06:25 Yeah. It’s waterproof down to fifteen feet.
CARL 01:06:30 Gentlemen, I’ve enjoy chatting with you today despite all of our negativity. Hey, we took it up a notch didn’t we?
CHRIS 01:06:40 I’m just trying to… never mind.
CARL 01:06:42 Yeah, yeah, it’s always good to talk with you guys. So you can find Planet Mitch in his universe that has been doubled in size at…
MITCH 01:06:54 planet5D.com and forums.planet5D.com
CARL 01:06:58 Excelente. Mr. Chris Fenwick.
CHRIS 01:07:00 You need to have something about the Planet-fied D black hole where you are sucking in the rest of the universe [laughter]. Chris Fenwick.com. I will post something later the day that which means that it should be up before you get this. But basically, I’d love to hear your Final Cut Pro wish list.
CARL 01:07:19 Excellent. Very nice.
CHRIS 01:07:20 That’s what it’ll be called. It’ll be called the Final Cut Pro 10 wish list.
CARL 01:07:23 Excellent.
CHRIS 01:07:24 And those things will get inside the loop.
CARL 01:07:25 Excellent, and you can find me at Digital Film.TV and on Twitter as the Carl Olson. You might see me at Atlanta Cutters if all goes well. I hope I make it there, because it’s been a long time since I’ve been to one. This is a first one for the year.
MITCH 01:08:28 Amen!
CARL 01:08:30 Yeah, well double the show, one person at a time, right? Very good. Keep sending in your questions and your feedback. We’ll eventually get to them in a future episode where we do questions, the Question and Answer show. So we’re looking forward to that. Well gentlemen, I think that’s everything. So I think what I’m going to do is I’m going to fire up my powder blue Corvette and take a road trip on Route 66.
CHRIS 01:08:59 No, you’re not. You don’t live anywhere near Route 66.
CARL 01:09:06 I’ll have to take a– I’ll just have to get in my car and drive wherever it is.
MITCH 01:09:11 When you come through St. Louis, stop by my house.
CARL 01:09:14 Hey, it’s the road less traveled, right?